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infection said:
I wouldn’t be so frustrated had he not likely cost us Crowder and Korver.
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Korver was unusable at the end of the year. He'll be a year older. Crowder was good, but inconsistent from outside and not great at the rim. It's quite possible that, in the long run, Exum will pan out better than both of them at this stage in their careers.
 
LifeOnaPlate said:
Korver was unusable at the end of the year. He'll be a year older. Crowder was good, but inconsistent from outside and not great at the rim. It's quite possible that, in the long run, Exum will pan out better than both of them at this stage in their careers.
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It's possible but I'm not seeing it as that probable. I'd put Crowder returning to his Boston years as more probable than that, but everyone would agree it's foolish to simply wait for Jae to return to being Boston Jae. And I think what you lose with Jae's intangibles is underappreciated.
 
infection said:
We'd have more money plus a starting spot.
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I agree with you partly here. The (only) way we'd have gotten JaMychal here was both with money and a key role.

infection said:
If we don't want to view him as that important of a piece because he won't close games, then fine. But realize the comparison is Exum, who isn't closing games, and is valuable as a hypothetical.
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Here I think you're wrong. The real comparison is Jeff vs. JaMychal. I'm 99% certain we could never have had both, since I'm sure that for both the role was as important to the pitch as the money. Given the make-up of the rest of the team, even though they are rather different players they both would fill more or less the same role with the Jazz (and I agree with Ron that it's primarily a non-closing role)

infection said:
I do think we are in need of a bigger body that can play the 4, defend, and hit the three. There will be matchups where we will need that. And, yes, times where we will have to close with that on the floor. Not often, but a lot more often than the Favors/Gobert tandem closed. We lost a lot of games last year where we could secure a defensive rebound. Aside from Gobert, we didn't have rebounders on the floor because Favors didn't close due to spacing issues. Green rebounds just as well as Favors, but connects on 40.3% from deep on just under 5 attempts per 36. He plays defense.
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I concede that JaMychal would give us better rebounding than any PF we have now. He's also a very good 3-pt shooter. But I don't concede that he's overall a clearly better player or even a better fit than Jeff -- maybe marginally better, but so marginally that it's more or less a wash. They are nearly identically sized. Neither is a good defender (JaMychal in particular is consistently among the worst PFs in DRPM). Jeff is a more versatile and prolific scorer, and had a higher TS% last year. Jeff may be a bit more switchable defensively.

So the clearest aspiration I've seen from the Dante detractors is that if we just had his money available is that we could have had JaMychal and Caruso instead of Jeff and Exum. Even ignoring the fact that the likelihood of getting both would have been well less than 100% (perhaps less than 50%), I'm just as optimistic (maybe even more) going into the season with Jeff and Exum as I would have been with JaMychal and Caruso.

Call me an idiot ...
 
idiot said:
I agree with you partly here. The (only) way we'd have gotten JaMychal here was both with money and a key role.



Here I think you're wrong. The real comparison is Jeff vs. JaMychal. I'm 99% certain we could never have had both, since I'm sure that for both the role was as important to the pitch as the money. Given the make-up of the rest of the team, even though they are rather different players they both would fill more or less the same role with the Jazz (and I agree with Ron that it's primarily a non-closing role)



I concede that JaMychal would give us better rebounding than any PF we have now. He's also a very good 3-pt shooter. But I don't concede that he's overall a clearly better player or even a better fit than Jeff -- maybe marginally better, but so marginally that it's more or less a wash. They are nearly identically sized. Neither is a good defender (JaMychal in particular is consistently among the worst PFs in DRPM). Jeff is a more versatile and prolific scorer, and had a higher TS% last year. Jeff may be a bit more switchable defensively.

So the clearest aspiration I've seen from the Dante detractors is that if we just had his money available is that we could have had JaMychal and Caruso instead of Jeff and Exum. Even ignoring the fact that the likelihood of getting both would have been well less than 100% (perhaps less than 50%), I'm just as optimistic (maybe even more) going into the season with Jeff and Exum as I would have been with JaMychal and Caruso.

Call me an idiot ...
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Getting JaMychal Green would have been at the bottom of my list, but still something I would have preferred. I think either Marcus Morris or Aminu would have been huge additions, and that's where my beef is.
 
infection said:
It's possible but I'm not seeing it as that probable. I'd put Crowder returning to his Boston years as more probable than that, but everyone would agree it's foolish to simply wait for Jae to return to being Boston Jae. And I think what you lose with Jae's intangibles is underappreciated.
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I love Jae's intangibles, I love the guy as a player. He's the one player we've lost that I am sad we lost as a player, not just as a good dude.
 
infection said:
It's possible but I'm not seeing it as that probable. I'd put Crowder returning to his Boston years as more probable than that. And I think what you lose with Jae's intangibles is underappreciated.
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I’m just not that concerned about losing Jae since we got Green. He would have been a better trade asset though because his contract is expiring.

I also think there is a chance we couldn’t convince Green to come here... he apparently turned down like 3/21 from Denver because he wanted to stay in LA. May or may not be true and I realize there were other guys we could have gotten.

At this point I hope Dante gets healthy and gives us something. If so he could be moved if something good came up... it might have to be unbelievably good though because the front office would likely be overly encouraged if Dante was healthy and contributing.
At that point we can also see how Bojan, Green, Royce, Niang are covering the PF minutes and if there are issues.
 
infection said:
Getting JaMychal Green would have been at the bottom of my list, but still something I would have preferred. I think either Marcus Morris or Aminu would have been huge additions, and that's where my beef is.
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Guys in that tier of player do become available during the season... we can be opportunistic around the deadline if a target becomes available.

Hell... Orlando may end up with some buyers remorse since they already have athletic forwards with questionable shooting on the roster.

We can take a wait and see approach at this point and it will give Dante a chance to recover some trade value.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Guys in that tier of player do become available during the season... we can be opportunistic around the deadline if a target becomes available.

Hell... Orlando may end up with some buyers remorse since they already have athletic forwards with questionable shooting on the roster.

We can take a wait and see approach at this point and it will give Dante a chance to recover some trade value.
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Not only this, but it'll give us a chance to evaluate how the pieces are coming together before committing to another piece. I think that's prudent. People around here are impatient as ****.
 
str8line said:
You mean soft like Charmin?

“You mother****ers are soft like Charmin in this ************. God damn, is this the type of **** that’s going on in these practices? Now I see why we’ve lost 20 ****ing games. We’re soft like Charmin. We’re soft like ****.”

Kobe Bryant’s outburst at today’s practice was so epic, so quotable and so viral-worthy, even the toilet paper maker had to respond.

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That too

Kobe is Dante’s idol. I think Kobe would literally kill Dante
 
NAOS said:
Not only this, but it'll give us a chance to evaluate how the pieces are coming together before committing to another piece. I think that's prudent. People around here are impatient as ****.
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Exactly.

I think we should start Royce at the 4... let the matchup determine who Bojan guards and who Royce guards. What team in the West creates a problem for us with Royce at the 4? Denver might... Millsap might eat us up on the offensive glass. San Antonio goes big to start usually, but they will also play a lot with Morris, Gay, etc. at the 4. Lakers likely start big but their best lineups will be with LeBron at the 4 and AD at the 5.

I like Royce at the 4 because he has a little lower usage rate, is a better defender than green, and is a better rebounder. I also want him to get more minutes, so starting allows that. I think Green can come off the bench and do his Jae Crowder impression. I think the closing lineup ends up being DM, Conley, Ingles, Bojan, Rudy. We can certainly upgrade the position, but I don't see that we need to.

Some of us have yearned for a guy like Robert Covington... Can't Royce be a reasonable facsimile of what RoCo would be? Doesn't have his steal or block rate, but I think Royce also doesn't gamble as much.
 
I feel like there’s the Alec Burks, CJ Miles, Dante Exum class of Jazz players that every year you hear how hard they work and all the talents the possess and every year they suck worse than the year prior.
 
Carbon13 said:
I feel like there’s the Alec Burks, CJ Miles, Dante Exum class of Jazz players that every year you hear how hard they work and all the talents the possess and every year they suck worse than the year prior.
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This.... and Jazzfanz are adamant that they'll "become something special." Turns out they all blow year after year
 
Let me keep piling on. Dante’s first step is incredible. Best in the league. But once he gets to the rim, it’s like he fell in a hole. He doesn’t really elevate, he throws up these wimpy underhanded out of control layups. Like who gives a **** about your first step when you finish like that?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Exactly.

I think we should start Royce at the 4... let the matchup determine who Bojan guards and who Royce guards. What team in the West creates a problem for us with Royce at the 4? Denver might... Millsap might eat us up on the offensive glass. San Antonio goes big to start usually, but they will also play a lot with Morris, Gay, etc. at the 4. Lakers likely start big but their best lineups will be with LeBron at the 4 and AD at the 5.

I like Royce at the 4 because he has a little lower usage rate, is a better defender than green, and is a better rebounder. I also want him to get more minutes, so starting allows that. I think Green can come off the bench and do his Jae Crowder impression. I think the closing lineup ends up being DM, Conley, Ingles, Bojan, Rudy. We can certainly upgrade the position, but I don't see that we need to.

Some of us have yearned for a guy like Robert Covington... Can't Royce be a reasonable facsimile of what RoCo would be? Doesn't have his steal or block rate, but I think Royce also doesn't gamble as much.
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As you know... these are pretty much my exact thoughts. Would rep.
 
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