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El Paso Shooting

Darkwing Duck said:
Internationally how can we be perceived as anything but an incredibly violent nation when there's compulsory firearm education for children?
How can we claim we're safe for international visitors when we are legislated to teach children about firearms?

How can parents feel about the safety and FUTURE of their children when the entire country is FORCED into firearm safety?

It's just a bad look all around.

And yet, the evidence is there, right?
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If it results in fewer fatalities, especially of the accidental variety which is far more problematic than mass shooting, then how could we be viewed as anything but less violent than we were before?
 
I just read the first half and was prepared to be shocked by a reasonable response, it went downhill quickly in the 2nd half.

Now immigration does need reform, so maybe there really is a workable deal there (though the 2 really shouldn't be tied together in any actual bills).

The fact that he's willing to bring up background checks is a good sign imo.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Same regardless. This isn’t the wild, Wild West.
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Yeah but it is a fair point about external perceptions of the US. I know in Germany we had discussions around guns and gun violence. It is a stereotype that all Americans own and carry guns, and that's just minor hyperbole. Many of my German friends were surprised to find out I only own 1 handgun and a couple other guns. They thought it was pretty common in the US for people to own lots and lots of guns.
 
I see people pretty consistently say that other types of gun deaths are more dangerous, but I don't really agree. These hate-based mass shootings are far far more dangerous to our fabric as a society and are the types of events that can potentially spiral out of control quite quickly (I mean potentially inciting large scale violence), while other types of shootings are not. And there's a reason for that, other types of gun deaths are closer to health related problems in that if you take the proper precautions then you can prevent them when it comes to you and yours. That is not possible with these mass shootings.
 


The media? Remember when the media told a rally that we were being invaded? Remember when the media told members of congress to “go back to where they came from?” Remember when the media descended down an escalator and called Mexicans rapists and murderers?

I’m so done with this filth.

Are the tax cuts and judges really worth all of this?
 
The Thriller said:


The media? Remember when the media told a rally that we were being invaded? Remember when the media told members of congress to “go back to where they came from?” Remember when the media descended down an escalator and called Mexicans rapists and murderers?

I’m so done with this filth.

Are the tax cuts and judges really worth all of this?
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You’re not “done with this”. Stop lying lol.

You’re going to continue being in here everyday posting the same stuff.

Lol
 
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Gameface said:
What about the biggest problems?

Why not pick the lowest hanging fruit first?

These mass shootings are terrorism. But our actual problem is so much bigger. That's what I'm trying to talk about. I'm not talking about doing nothing. I'm saying let's talk about the elephant in the room before we talk about the raccoon in our garbage can.
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I'm ok with that. Just pick some damn fruit

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yeah but it is a fair point about external perceptions of the US. I know in Germany we had discussions around guns and gun violence. It is a stereotype that all Americans own and carry guns, and that's just minor hyperbole. Many of my German friends were surprised to find out I only own 1 handgun and a couple other guns. They thought it was pretty common in the US for people to own lots and lots of guns.
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Many Americans have misinformed perceptions about people in the Middle East. Does it mean those countries should concern their selves with our ignorance?
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Internationally how can we be perceived as anything but an incredibly violent nation when there's compulsory firearm education for children?
How can we claim we're safe for international visitors when we are legislated to teach children about firearms?

How can parents feel about the safety and FUTURE of their children when the entire country is FORCED into firearm safety?

It's just a bad look all around.

And yet, the evidence is there, right?
Click to expand...

Reality >>> perception.

I don't give a **** what people might think about it.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yeah but it is a fair point about external perceptions of the US. I know in Germany we had discussions around guns and gun violence. It is a stereotype that all Americans own and carry guns, and that's just minor hyperbole. Many of my German friends were surprised to find out I only own 1 handgun and a couple other guns. They thought it was pretty common in the US for people to own lots and lots of guns.
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That’s a big point. You ONLY own 3 weapons, where I come from if you own 3 weapons, and you are not a hunter living surrounded by wild animals, people think you are a dangerous fanatic.
Once again, I’m not saying you or anyone else is a fanatic, but that’s the foreigner feeling about US and guns.

Just to clarify my thoughts before, I know there aren’t people walking around with rifles, but somewhere they are allowed to do it and for my twisted European mind that’s totally nonsense.



Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Gameface said:
I don't think understanding firearms is a bad thing at all, for anyone.

But in the U.S. we have a Bill of Rights that in Amendment 2 guarantees a right to keep and bare arms.

This is our reality. This is not something that will be changed. This will not change if we have a Democratic President, a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate. This is not something that is going to change.

So this is something we have to deal with as a reality.

If gun rights are a fundamental part of our society then gun education has to be part of our reality as well. That's not sad. That is something that will actually make a difference.
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Thought it was an amendment to the constitution? Society's change, the constitution is a living document, prohibition came about through a constitutional change and was removed again. Change is possible but it requires organisation, i believe the will to change already exists.
 
The Thriller said:


The media? Remember when the media told a rally that we were being invaded? Remember when the media told members of congress to “go back to where they came from?” Remember when the media descended down an escalator and called Mexicans rapists and murderers?

I’m so done with this filth.

Are the tax cuts and judges really worth all of this?
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This piece of **** is everything this country was designed to never give power to. Holy **** have we failed.
 
The reality of all of this is nothing changes overnight; controlling domestic terrorism such as this isn't a one-step or two-step solution, but like an engine, requires multiple parts to work together over a prolonged period of time to make an impact. It's not impossible to do, but requires commitment from all parties to make it happen.

Mental health issue? Sure, we can strengthen this, but would have that alone prevented this? Would these individuals even have been flagged?

Background checks? Of course these need to be better than today's backdoors, but how do you regulate the secondary market of consumer to consumer?

Limiting high capacity mags? Makes sense, but only a handful of states have laws against these and it's easy enough to acquire one from another state.

Assault weapons ban? Mass shootings are undeniably up since the ban ran out, but even if we disallow the manufacture of new ones, the amount of existing ones is prevalent.

Gun buybacks? I know many who would sell there's for a nice markup in return and even though that would cut the existing population, many would choose to hold on to them anyway. There's also the outstanding issue of how you pay for it.

Withstanding from all of this is not giving a platform to this radicalization from politicians, special interests and tech companies who house more data about you than you could possibly realize and could better flag problematic behavior.

In short, change is possible, but big ideas will require big solutions. You can't piecemeal such a thing out and expect changes. But it's entirely plausible to reduce the trend of mass shootings down over time through a sustained and coordinated effort with multiple workstreams in unison.

Otherwise, just a matter of time before the next mass shooting and we regurgitate this whole conversation again and wonder what we could have done.
 
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