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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

infection said:
I’m not sure if you’re suggesting that I’ve said any of those races don’t matter, because I haven’t. The two posts that got me in to this discussion are below:




Thriller says Trump can’t even win in “uber red state.” colton quotes someone who points out that Trump carried Louisiana in 2016 by 20 points but now his backed candidate loses and colton says, “this is significant.”

My questions are whether this is “significant” and whether this is a huge stain on Trump...
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You're not really addressing me but since you quoted my post I'll respond.

I think it's significant that a state that voted for Trump by 20 percentage points just elected a Democrat for governor despite Trump campaigning vigorously for the other candidate, and pleading to his base to vote against the Democrat. If you don't see that as significant, that's your right but I don't understand why. I don't think it's a "huge stain," just significant.
 
babe said:
Ostrich diagnosis confirmed.
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You diagnosing me is not evidence.

babe said:
you need to think it over before rolling in the aisles being so sure of what you already "know".
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Yet, you agreed with me.

babe said:
Pretty sure Flynn has agreed with you on this by now. However, the planning for entrapping Flynn was quite elaborate, and determined.
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Most of these FBI schemes are.

babe said:
He was target #1. The exchanged plans are criminal, and some FBI and CIA folks should be in jail for what they did.
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I'm not disagreeing. One of the specialties is taking disgruntled people, pretending to enable them into terrorism, and then arresting them. The only thing we seem to disagree on is that you think Flynn somehow was treated worse than other people. He was treated just the same. Everyone gets railroaded like that.

babe said:
And if we let entrenched federal officers do this sort of thing to any American, we can have no rule of law. We will lose all our fundamental rights.
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Exactly.

babe said:
But you are a SICK man with a vision of "facts" of your own choosing, and world of your own imagination, while asserting or claiming yourself to be literally the grand phoo baa of objectivity.
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You say that while agreeing with my position. It's pretty amusing.

babe said:
There is quite a lot of information on this that is available. Pretty useless to cut and paste it in here.
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Links can be used, as well. In fact,I'd prefer that.
 
The Thriller said:
Trumpers can't have it both ways.

1. Either these people aren't "Never Trumpers" and Trump is labeling anyone who disagrees with him as "Never Trumpers." Such labeling is destructive and warrants impeachment.

Or

2. He has the worst judgement of anyone, keeps hiring Never Trumpers, and needs to be impeached.
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I agree that either Trump is just labeling what he doesn't like or is exhibiting bad judgment, but neither of those is impeachable. However, plenty of his other stuff is.
 
colton said:
You're not really addressing me but since you quoted my post I'll respond.

I think it's significant that a state that voted for Trump by 20 percentage points just elected a Democrat for governor despite Trump campaigning vigorously for the other candidate, and pleading to his base to vote against the Democrat. If you don't see that as significant, that's your right but I don't understand why. I don't think it's a "huge stain," just significant.
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Yeah, but I think it’s really hard to separate from the context of the same governor winning in a landslide the year before Trump took Louisiana by 20 points, yet a narrow victory this time. We can nuance this, but it’s hard to explain such a massive variance, to the point that it makes any pontificating on this election as some generalization the equivalent of homeytennis just suggesting that if you put Tony Bradley’s per minute numbers to scale on Gobert, that they’re fairly similar.
 
The Thriller said:
It is.

But what other choice does the GOP have? Continue down this white nationalist path?

@colton may have some thoughts on this. But there’s quite a constituency of conservative Never Trumpers out there. People who are both educated, religious, believe in laws but also don’t believe immigrants should be treated like crap, doesn’t believe that political candidates should degrade women (she was bleeding from her eyes and wherever), and can engage in rational discussion that involves compromise.

Personally, I’d love for people of like @colton to join our side. Right now we’re all part of the Never Trump resistance. But I understand if conservatives don’t join the Democratic Party and bring greater balance there. But that means a new Conservative party must take the GOP’s place or return the GOP to sanity. Right?
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For me the sticking point is abortion. While I don't see it as equivalent to murder I do believe the unborn deserve some rights and see the abortion anytime culture as a huge blight on our nation. If there were a Democratic candidate that supported any sort of limitations on abortion I would likely vote for him or her. But none believe in any limitations at all, as far as I can tell. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) The rest of my moderate to conservative views I could set aside and possibly even register as a Democrat, but not that.
 
It’s almost like trump supporters have embraced the postmodern relativism that they so despise from coastal elites.

I think we should just agree, smile, and agree with them as they shout “winning!”

yes, you are a winner!
 
The Thriller said:
More fake news, right? @JazzyFresh @hack @babe

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/14/trump-sondland-ukraine-phone-call-070913



but but but america first!



right?
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I would start by disbelieving reports lacking evidence...... at least date, time and a phone call record from the phone company.

However, Trump has learned that his official calls on secure lines are routinely "leaked" to the Press and the whole damn world. We need to find the leakers and prosecutde severely before you start on Trump.

If Trump had a ho string two tin cans together and connect them to Trump and whoever needs to be securely contacted, he'd be doing better than anything our agencies can do. well, will do for him.

Overall, it's the guilty accusing Trump of all they have done, for all they're worth, hoping to make us sick of the topic before we can get them sent to the jails they should be in.

For the progressives "liberals" or managerial folks worldwide, it's now "but but but.... it's about us first."
 
porcupinetree said:
I'm seriously not the least bit worried. I would be very happy if they voted tomorrow because then the House would lose all of its control over this process.
As soon as they vote on ACTUAL impeachment, then the senate takes over.
Do you really think the Senate is going to vote to remove? (it takes 67 votes)
So go ahead.

I still say that the vote will never happen. Even if it did, it wouldn't matter.
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I disagree. This is such a prominent spectacle, it's likely to become "standard" American conduct. Every day it goes on, it destroys people's respect or reason. It's disgusting. shameful, and destructive.

responsible and civic-minded elected officials would not waste their time or our money on this.

And I don't really "believe" in the Senate, either. McConnell is a deep-state permapower man. As corrupt as any. He just have to act the part for the folks at home, and try to conceal his real self. I hold him responsible like Pelosi or Feinstein or Obama or Hillary for compromising my rights, our economy, and actual decency around the world.

And I don't believe in our electoral process. Too many interested people working on the registrations, the advertising, the street, the polls, and the count. Pretty worried they can get the result they want if they care to apply themselves with sufficient determination.

The only substantial hope is that some of us wake up and begin to participate effectively. Honesty is a pretty subtle thing sometimes..... pretty hard to check ourselves unless we recognize the problem of partisanship, or determine that we can't afford the "elite" management.
 
gandalfe said:
Did our new trolling alt, porcupinetree, get banned yet?
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I think you'd like China. I hear they do an excellent job of moderating discussions over there, and I'm sure you'd fit right in. Of course, it's a bit risky. You can never absolutely depend on how anyone will understand anything. Maybe somebody would think you're a nuisance and call in the paddy wagon. I hear the camps are good, though. Doesn't Nike use the free labor to make shoes there? And isn't that where all the NBA gear is made?

And the alt game is fun, somehow. There really are just too few people willing to participate in here. So, really, I think we should encourage alts, particularly alts who can pretend to have different opinions.
I would love to have some intelligence in here, maybe an Ain't or a Pearl, lets say.
 
If the losses in Ky and La make Trump look bad, it's surely at least partly because he, of his own free will, made the races about himself. At the Ky rally, contemplating a Republican loss, he said "You can't let that happen to me". At the final Louisiana rally, he said "So you gotta give me a big win, please, okay? Okay?" What's the common thread there? ME.

The media of course hones in on, and plays footage of, comments like that, since they interpret it as Trump making those elections at least in part a referendum on himself. But those were his words, he raised the stakes himself, and we can't possibly be surprised if he centralized himself, that's what he does. The world revolves around Trump. Does not matter if the results say anything about 2020. But, at the same time, one can't expect Trump opponents not to point out the obvious: he linked himself to the elections, and he lost.
 
infection said:
Yeah, but I think it’s really hard to separate from the context of the same governor winning in a landslide the year before Trump took Louisiana by 20 points, yet a narrow victory this time. We can nuance this, but it’s hard to explain such a massive variance, to the point that it makes any pontificating on this election as some generalization the equivalent of homeytennis just suggesting that if you put Tony Bradley’s per minute numbers to scale on Gobert, that they’re fairly similar.
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I don't know anything at all about this, but Trump went there three times, and someone on a talk show said the R didn't have any ground game.... no signs, no volunteers. And I saw his pic. Looked like death warmed over.

Incumbents have some advantages, probably enough so to survive even a popular Presidential endorsement, unless they are themselves objectionable like the Kentucky gov.

I'd guess that there are a lot of people there who really were more disgusted by Hillary. Other than that, folks usually part ways about 50/50 over anything.

For Trump, it is a consideration to have some Rs on the ground and in office anywhere, and I think he's gonna go where ever he can to get that support, if he can.
 
What annoys me the most is the obvious partisanship shown by most of the posters on the impeachment issue. I support the impeachment process running it’s course, and if the findings are good enough to impeach Trump then so be it. There’s plenty to suspect about him (see Manafort).

But to imply that there’s no reason to investigate Biden is ludicrous. People putting their party in front of the american people’s interests is the most anti-american position I can think of.
 
Jazzta said:
But to imply that there’s no reason to investigate Biden is ludicrous. People putting their party in front of the american people’s interests is the most anti-american position I can think of.
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What is the reason to investigate Biden?
 
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