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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

I disagree. Rhetoric that poor deserves to be called out multiple times, sometimes even after the apology.

I disagree. Who gives you the right to presume authoritative judgment to call out poor rhetoric.

Some may not be all that familiar with "our" manners and opinions. If you think you have some kind of better way, your rights consist of deciding how you will conduct yourself, and pretty much make every effort to instruct others (as this little blurb may be, for example) beyond your actual rights.

If anyone can really, actually, conform themselves to the ideal of respecting others, it consists of being gracious to those you are inclined to view as having lesser notions of propriety.
 
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So, your cure to having (in your view) a conspiracy of the rich secretly influencing government is to arrange it so only the wealthy can afford to work in government?

It actually is the reverse of what your logic misleads you believe. The wealthy wouldn't be "stupid" enough to work for less pay, and anyone who just doesn't need the pay..... like, for example, Trump.....might choose to do the job for the altruistic sorts of reasons.....and every schemer with a penchant for personal benefit would just gag at the idea of being so constrained.

The important thing is to demolish the linkage between government office and government power from the personal benefits you can receive from favored sources.

Then even the very rich could not benefit personally from the government position.

80% pay in any profession or managerial sort of position will never be much less than the average citizen. As a rule, it will still be about 150% of the average income. You just won't make it to being a millionaire for your 10 years in public service. And, since you cannot pass out guvmint favors in office, you won't be doing any of the revolving door career moves that just benefit the cartelists. So you will likely just get a job in the private sector when you're done that is nothing like your little public gig.

It'd still be a good life.

You would actually become a better human being for your years in service, and it would still be a much appreciated virtue that you are not an "institution" of government we can not do without.
 
I disagree. Rhetoric that poor deserves to be called out multiple times, sometimes even after the apology.

He's free to call him out as much as he wants. I'm just advocating that he read all the responses first. At least he'd be aware that he was rehashing what's already been said. Best case scenario, he finds something unique to add to the mass rebuke.
 
Yeah, the problem with that is it's really not a "****show from all sides" is it?

No, it isn't. There is no moral equivalency we can make of it. No equality. Different is just different. We make it good or bad in our minds, more or less.... we have the power of delusion if we want to use it. But objectively, there is in the universe an actual inherent hierarchy of values.

Every living thing naturally puts its own interests on a priority.... either individually or as a member of a group.

We can form groups we like.... JFC could be made an example. If the JFC community really wants to be some ideal of a superior site with superior enlightened views, legally, you have to declare the intent and define it. Otherwise, "open to the public" means open to anyone.

Discerning superior values is actually the definition of intelligence, but a public discussion site with no defined values for inclusion/exclusion, ordinarily fares no better than the reasoning brought to the table.

If you can make your case, you may be still in want of a comprehending audience.....
 
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So, your cure to having (in your view) a conspiracy of the rich secretly influencing government is to arrange it so only the wealthy can afford to work in government?

You really disable your logic and reason with your use of prejudicial rhetoric. What is the relevance or value of ascribing to me a view described as "having a conspiracy of the rich secretly influencing government" as the only alternative to having "only the wealthy"who can afford to work in government? You miss the whole meaning, entirely.

government is a sort of necessary thing, and people may have hugely varying views of what is "good" or "necessary" in governance.

Having it exist as a tool for personal power or profit is a notion as old as the hills. Having it exist as a servant of the people is the revolutionary aspiration of the American founders, perhaps never very well implemented in practice.

I don't think there is anything particularly unwelcome either in having organizations with interests in the government, nor in having "wealthy" persons operating the government, so long as it is not being made a personal tool, where it is legitimately only a public tool only properly used to address some needed public service.

People who act corruptly, misdirecting the funds or privileges of power to interests other than the general public, are as a rule, bad conspirators. Personal benefits other than organized benefits, actually.

The possible value or contributions organizations, such as the CFR for example, or the Chamber of Commerce say, could be good for the public..... or bad..... depending on the coherence of the organization's values to the public values.

We could argue UN as a serviceable agent of mankind, benefiting mankind, as well. But again, the coherence of the values promoted with those of the people is the real issue. When the ordinary people are viewed as subjects to be manipulated and managed, I say those values are incoherent with the public good.
 
When I read transcripts or whatever regarding Trump-Ukraine: definitely quid pro quo, let's see if they can prove it.

When I read JF impeach Trump thread: **** ****, what a bunch of deranged psychotic lunatics. What alternate reality is this? Trump is obviously innocent here, what a crock of ****!

But that's the perception battle the poly-scy campaigners have waged and are fighting. Kinda funny the rabid, deluded fanatics here are helping the Trump side of public perception with their constant party hack nonsense. Good job guys. Well done.
 
Guy robs a bank

Runs away with the loot.

after his neighbor turns him in, he offers as proof the fact that he told people that he did not rob the bank.

Guys this is really not hard once you get past the propaganda.
 
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