This game was a prime example on why we need a backup Center badly.
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We need a backup Center
- Thread starter Elizah Huge
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jom2003
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we would fail every time if we want the backup center to just come in and continues to do everything that rudy's done for us. we simply need to switch our playstyle/gameplan entirely instead of hoping for any kind of unrealistic continuity.
it worked well for us when rudy was out for two games versus pels/bucks when snyder set up a whole different gameplan from the get go. instead of the defensive approach that we've always had with rudy, our offense was simply cooking and bradley had an offensive rating of 130 and 191 in those two games, respectively.
it worked well for us when rudy was out for two games versus pels/bucks when snyder set up a whole different gameplan from the get go. instead of the defensive approach that we've always had with rudy, our offense was simply cooking and bradley had an offensive rating of 130 and 191 in those two games, respectively.
Gobert has to play too many minutes. Gobert picks up more fouls when he plays too many minutes. We’ve had to put TB in in crunch time twice now. It’s not an issue of expecting him to be Rudy. It’s an issue of expecting someone to be able to not completely **** things up.
Forgetting Rudy isn’t out there isn’t the issue. The issue is realizing Bradley’s out there.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
we need to realize what rudy's done for us this year is simply irreplicable, any attempts to mimic or duplicate rudy's work will fail miserably.
i mean, Ed wouldn't all of a sudden to go from one of the league's premier backup center to the worst trash bench player ever for no reason at all. if a backup center can simply anchor the defense and stop everything inside while also securing all those rebounds at a decent rate(when you have a 6'4 royce as your second best rebounder on the floor), he wouldn't be a backup center in this league.
heck, there are tons of "defensive" centers who only chased the stats without making any real impacts on the game but are actually starting for their teams. Drummond, Whiteside... just to name a few. those guys would also fail if they were to be the backup to rudy.
so why not just change your gameplan, and worry a bit less about defense and focus more on offense whenever rudy's off because there is just no point?
i mean, Ed wouldn't all of a sudden to go from one of the league's premier backup center to the worst trash bench player ever for no reason at all. if a backup center can simply anchor the defense and stop everything inside while also securing all those rebounds at a decent rate(when you have a 6'4 royce as your second best rebounder on the floor), he wouldn't be a backup center in this league.
heck, there are tons of "defensive" centers who only chased the stats without making any real impacts on the game but are actually starting for their teams. Drummond, Whiteside... just to name a few. those guys would also fail if they were to be the backup to rudy.
so why not just change your gameplan, and worry a bit less about defense and focus more on offense whenever rudy's off because there is just no point?
homeytennis
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How about Isaac Haas 7'2"290 playing for the Stars?
jom2003
Well-Known Member
bradley is fine. anyone would look bad if the coach simply tells you to go out there and provide what rudy gobert's been providing to the team.
bradley would've been a solid player on any other teams and i'd seriously argue for a 10+10 stats line on a lesser team that would give him significant PT. he was decent in the two games when rudy went down versus pels/bucks cuz quin simply had a reasonably different gameplan, instead of asking him to come in mid game and provide that defensive continuity which was impossible to begin with.
what rudy's done for us, especially this year with the absence of Favs, has been so underappreciated and it's not even funny.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
again, anyone would look bad defensively if he is to be compared to rudy gobert. fans just need to have a complete different expectation, so should quin. TB is an unique player on his own and has his own strength in catching/finishing with solids hands. why not utilize that more often like we did back when we played bucks/pels with rudy out, instead of asking him to be rudy's duplicate.
Bradley is getting some pretty weak calls against him right now. Thats the biggest issue imo. I think he helps on defense well. He's a big body. He can rebound, and he can make a layup. He gets 2-3 weak calls against him every game, and occasionally will leave his feet too early. He's fine for a backup C.
The Thriller
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Lol are you guys serious? Bradley makes Jarron collins look like an allstar and Ed Davis makes Udoh look like Dream. The issue isn’t that Gobert is awesome. Gobert has been awesome for years. The issue is that we have dog **** backing him up whereas before we had Favors and Udoh; both of whom are 100x the players Bradley and Davis are.
Jazz fans have become entitled when it comes to their expectations of a back up center. We have gone from having Rudy and Favors two guys I consider to be close to top 5 centers in the league with Gobert being in the conversation of being the best and as I'm concerned comfortably the best defensive player in the league, to having Bradley and Davis. Davis struggled to defend and was absolutely useless on offense while Bradley also has the defensive struggles but can fit in on offense. The reality is whoever is the back up is going to find it difficult to emulate what Rudy is doing because 1. he is so good at what he does and 2. the system doesn't change from Rudy to his back up and 3. the bench guys that whoever Rudys back up plays with are also lesser defensive players than our starters. There might be better back up centers available than Tony Bradley but playing in our system (which in truth doesn't exactly aid Bradley) they might not be the upgrade Jazz think they would be.
jumpin bean
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Refs call fouls on Bradley whether he fouls or not which makes him hesitant. We need a backup center that will at least not get a rookie like whistle
jom2003
Well-Known Member
there was a reason for quin to use a lineup of Favs next to Rudy last couple of seasons even though they don't really mesh offensively because favs' mere presence on the floor serve as a tremendous reinforcement to Rudy on defense. whenver rudy goes out to contest a shot, he knows Favs will be right behind him to secure those rebounds and vice versa.
and now that is gone this season, rudy's work simply has turn from somewhat "human" to "godlike" because he has to protect the paint and collect the boards all by himself when we only have a 6'5 royce oneale as the second best defender/rebounder on the floor.
ED would've been perfectly fine this year have we kept favs. just have Favs play right next to him and let Ed only worry about collecting boards while helping out on D occasionally like everything that made him so good as a backup center in the first place. of course he would look garbage when we expect him to anchor the entire paint all by himself. any centers who could pull that off wouldn't be just a backup.
So here's where I'm at...
I don't think that Bradley is ideal for us as the backup THIS season. Just because he's still young, still learning, still growing. And we're trying to contend right now.
However... Bradley has shown a lot of promise and I don't think that the defensive issues and fouling are all his fault.
Our team defense is putting a lot of pressure on Gobert and Bradley to save us. Our perimeter defense has been bad the last few weeks. I mean we're just letting players blow by unimpeded. No resistance whatsoever. We're asking Gobert/Bradley to guard the opposing center, guard the blow by, protect the rim AND rebound. It's too much too ask on damn near every defensive possession.
So my question is... is it a defensive scheme problem or is it a personnel problem?
I think in a lot of ways it's a scheme issue. We've always funneled to Rudy. But Quin needs to somehow get the perimeter defenders to be more disruptive... don't make it as easy as it's been recently.
I feel like Bradley would look better if we weren't asking him to do what Rudy does. That's a MASSIVE ask.
I do think we need one more piece in an ideal world. I keep changing my mind on what that piece looks like. Sometimes I feel like it's a traditional backup 5. Sometimes I feel like it's a stretch 5 so we can go back to running some 5 out. Most times I feel like it's a disruptive defensive 4 who can also play some 5. Tonight I was wondering if maybe we need a strong perimeter defender so we can have Royce be more free to be disruptive in help D. Ideally its probably a mix of some of those traits in one player.
I don't think that Bradley is ideal for us as the backup THIS season. Just because he's still young, still learning, still growing. And we're trying to contend right now.
However... Bradley has shown a lot of promise and I don't think that the defensive issues and fouling are all his fault.
Our team defense is putting a lot of pressure on Gobert and Bradley to save us. Our perimeter defense has been bad the last few weeks. I mean we're just letting players blow by unimpeded. No resistance whatsoever. We're asking Gobert/Bradley to guard the opposing center, guard the blow by, protect the rim AND rebound. It's too much too ask on damn near every defensive possession.
So my question is... is it a defensive scheme problem or is it a personnel problem?
I think in a lot of ways it's a scheme issue. We've always funneled to Rudy. But Quin needs to somehow get the perimeter defenders to be more disruptive... don't make it as easy as it's been recently.
I feel like Bradley would look better if we weren't asking him to do what Rudy does. That's a MASSIVE ask.
I do think we need one more piece in an ideal world. I keep changing my mind on what that piece looks like. Sometimes I feel like it's a traditional backup 5. Sometimes I feel like it's a stretch 5 so we can go back to running some 5 out. Most times I feel like it's a disruptive defensive 4 who can also play some 5. Tonight I was wondering if maybe we need a strong perimeter defender so we can have Royce be more free to be disruptive in help D. Ideally its probably a mix of some of those traits in one player.
Handlogten's Heros
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Most of them are just soft fouls because he’s late but it looks like he’s straight up. He’s not very good.
I think there is maybe something to changing our defensive scheme to adjust for the fact that people aren’t Rudy... or you go get someone like WCS with the right build to contest a lot of shots.
At very least maybe get a shooting 5 and do some 5 out stuff... we can do better at the 4/5 spot.
Handlogten's Heros
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Right! I thought this thread was sponsored by Captain Obvious... but not I guess... this is fine.