Matthews: No Hometeam Discount for Jazz

[mkbelle]

If he SIGNS it, right. But he don't hafta sign sumthin, just because it gits writ up proper and shoved in fronta him.

Well, this is what I'm unsure of. Of course he doesn't HAVE to sign anything... but with the Jazz electing to make a qualifying offer in order to make Wes a restricted FA, can they even make another offer to him, separate from matching an offer from another team? Or are we at a point where the Jazz's current 'offer' to him is the qualifying offer ($937,135).... until he signs an offer sheet from another team, which the Jazz can choose to match, or not? Can the Jazz even negotiate with him at this point?

 

[Hopper]

The headline a newspaper editor gives a story (such as "No hometown discount for Jazz") aint the story its own damn self, ya know?

Matthews' Pappy done said this here:

"There's no question his loyalty is to the Jazz,'' Matthews Sr. said. "They gave him a chance. But it has to be a fair, market-value deal.'' He's just sayin his boy aint Santa Claus, but is lookin for a "fair deal." https://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/02/a-year-after-being-undrafted-wesley-matthews-set-to-cash-in/

Even in the article cited by the OP, Matthews merely says: "MATTHEWS: I got to go with the business decision."

A "business decision" might be contrasted with an emotional, "non-business" decision. There are many things, other than the very last dollar, to consider when making a "business decision."

Hell, Matthews might even be willing to take less, just to get the hell out of Utah, who knows? (although he really doesn't have the final say on that).

 

[Hopper]

Can the Jazz even negotiate with him at this point?

Well, I don't know why not, but I spoze there could be some league restrictions (up to a certain date) on it.

There seems to be some confusion about the effect of a "qualifiying offer." That simply preserves the right to match what another team offers. But what if there are no offers, and Matthews tells the Jazz "Either give me $3 million/year, or else I goin to Europe?" I have little doubt the Jazz would be entirely free to pay the $3 million, the QO notwithstanding.

Of course Matthews "could" just accept the QO and end it right there, but he aint gunna, and would be stupid to do so. The point is that Matthews doesn't "have" to wait for other teams to make offers.

 

[mkbelle]

The headline a newspaper editor gives a story (such as "No hometown discount for Jazz") aint the story its own damn self, ya know?

Matthews' Pappy done said this here:

"There's no question his loyalty is to the Jazz,'' Matthews Sr. said. "They gave him a chance. But it has to be a fair, market-value deal.'' He's just sayin his boy aint Santa Claus, but is lookin for a "fair deal." https://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/02/a-year-after-being-undrafted-wesley-matthews-set-to-cash-in/

Even in the article cited by the OP, Matthews merely says: "MATTHEWS: I got to go with the business decision."

A "business decision" might be contrasted with an emotional, "non-business" decision. There are many things, other than the very last dollar, to consider when making a "business decision."

Hell, Matthews might even be willing to take less, just to get the hell out of Utah, who knows? (although he really doesn't have the final say on that).

Well, this is all fine and good... but doesn't answer my question. My question is if the whole idea of a 'home town discount' is a moot point now. My question is if the Jazz can even negotiate with Wes at this point, or if their qualifying offer stands unless/until he signs an offer sheet that they either match, or not?

Even if he wanted to, can Matthews go the Jazz and say 'hey, I have an offer sheet from Portland for 3 years/$18 million that I'm considering, but I'm willing to NOT sign the offer sheet, if you can make me an offer that is reasonably close to that'?? Then.... without Wes signing an offer sheet, if the Jazz wanted to, could they in fact go ahead an make a deal with him? For some reason, I don't think so... seems like their 'qualifying' offer stands as their offer unless they have an offer sheet to match (or not). I'm not sure of the rules though... that's what I'm asking about.

 

[Hopper]

The Deseret News doesn't seem to think there would be any problem:

"It remains to be seen if the Jazz will attempt to agree on terms with Fesenko and/or Matthews shortly after the NBA's free-agency negotiating period opens at 10 p.m. (MT) Wednesday"

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...yrylo-Fesenko-get-qualifying-offers.html?pg=1

 

[Kenwood]

Yes, the Jazz can negotiate with him at this point, despite the QO. In fact, based on what we heard on July 1, they already have made contact with him or his agent. Whether negotiations have actually occurred or an official offer has been made, that's a different question. This whole market is a bit stagnant waiting to see what LeBron will do.

From the Jazz' perspective, it is in their best interest to sign him quickly so they don't get hit with a Portland-Millsap type offer again. But at the same time, they probably want to judge the market before making that offer so they don't overpay.

On the other hand, Matthews probably wants to sign quickly, but doesn't want to be underpaid, so he wants to make sure he hears back from any team that has shown interest. He'd hate to sign at $3M with a team right off the bat and later find out that someone else might have paid him $5M when they missed out on other players they were targeting.

 

[mkbelle]

Yes, the Jazz can negotiate with him at this point, despite the QO. In fact, based on what we heard on July 1, they already have made contact with him or his agent. Whether negotiations have actually occurred or an official offer has been made, that's a different question. This whole market is a bit stagnant waiting to see what LeBron will do.

From the Jazz' perspective, it is in their best interest to sign him quickly so they don't get hit with a Portland-Millsap type offer again. But at the same time, they probably want to judge the market before making that offer so they don't overpay.

On the other hand, Matthews probably wants to sign quickly, but doesn't want to be underpaid, so he wants to make sure he hears back from any team that has shown interest. He'd hate to sign at $3M with a team right off the bat and later find out that someone else might have paid him $5M when they missed out on other players they were targeting.

Well, I guess that answers my question. Matthews can wait to see what type of offers he gets, and then (if he wants) still negotiate something with the Jazz. Seems kind of strange though... I don't remember much talk of negotiating when Miles and Millsap signed their offer sheets. I do remember talk from the Jazz FO about letting the market determine their 'value'... then getting hit with the offer sheets. So I suppose they got offers they liked, and rather than try to negotiate with the Jazz, opted to just sign the offer sheets and leave it up to the Jazz whether or not to match.... meaning, they just went for the most money they thought they could get. I predict Matthews will do the same.

 

[Hopper]

So I suppose they got offers they liked, and rather than try to negotiate with the Jazz, opted to just sign the offer sheets and leave it up to the Jazz whether or not to match.... meaning, they just went for the most money they thought they could get. I predict Matthews will do the same.

My guess would be that the Jazz low-balled them so bad that they took much betters offers, perfectly satisfied whether the Jazz matched, or not.

 

[mkbelle]

The Deseret News doesn't seem to think there would be any problem:

"It remains to be seen if the Jazz will attempt to agree on terms with Fesenko and/or Matthews shortly after the NBA's free-agency negotiating period opens at 10 p.m. (MT) Wednesday"

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...yrylo-Fesenko-get-qualifying-offers.html?pg=1

Isn't there a week or so, between the time FA opens, to the time teams can sign players from other teams? Maybe that is what the article was suggesting, that the Jazz could try to make a deal before a team could make an official offer.

 

[Hopper]

Isn't there a week or so, between the time FA opens, to the time teams can sign players from other teams? Maybe that is what the article was suggesting, that the Jazz could try to make a deal before a team could make an official offer.

Ask Kenwood, he's the expert. But no, I don't think so.

 

[mfree]

The Jazz have allowed other teams to set his price, so I don't think there is a way to give a hometown discount. The only way would be to make him an offer before anyone else.

This is not a bad strategy for a couple of reasons.

1) It makes other teams really think twice before offering since a solid offer will surely be matched. They have to overpay to have a chance.
2) It makes other teams tie up their cap space while the Jazz take two weeks to match or not. Keeps them out of the market for other players.

The downside is that another team can make the Jazz overpay to keep him.

 

[mkbelle]

The Jazz have allowed other teams to set his price, so I don't think there is a way to give a hometown discount. The only way would be to make him an offer before anyone else.

This was my thinking... but I had wondered about the specifics when it comes to the rules of restricted free agency, and if it was even possible for the Jazz to try and negotiate once an offer sheet is received.

They probably have made him an offer (just like they must have with Millsap and Miles), but of course the offers would be conservative and I don't think there would be much incentive to sign without 'testing' the market... UNLESS a player isn't all about the money, and most of them are, especially these guys who are finally coming into large contracts, which is understandable to a point. I do get tired of references to the 'lower' NBA salaries (such as the league minimum) that make the wages sound as if they are at the poverty level or something. Even those not making millions are still making A LOT of money.