What's new
By:
Filters

Chris Broussard on Stockton and Malone

I have never been a fan of Broussard but this might change that forever. Outstanding and well deserved tribute to the statues.
 
gomretat said:
I have never been a fan of Broussard but this might change that forever. Outstanding and well deserved tribute to the statues.
Click to expand...
I’ve always liked him actually and doesn’t surprise me he has nothing but great things to say about our duo.

in my opinion the only thing that stood in the way of Stockton and Malone was their teams around them during the 90’s. Stockton and Malone with some Hornacek sprinkled in had to do everything for those teams
 
Thee jazz fan said:
in my opinion the only thing that stood in the way of Stockton and Malone was their teams around them during the 90’s. Stockton and Malone with some Hornacek sprinkled in had to do everything for those teams
Click to expand...

This recent indirect attention on Stockton and Malone made me look back at their careers and I had to remind myself of just how bad their supporting casts were. I mean, even I had actually forgotten how bad.

Like, Jeff Malone was not just a terrible defender(I wish I could find an ESPN article from a few years back that looks at advanced stats and claims he might have been one of the worst of all time, considering how much he played), but he's one of the handful of guys to average 20+ points in a season and have a Value-over-replacement player of 0. And I think he's the only one to ever do it on a winning team. That's ridiculous. Dude scores 20 a game but costs you on average enough points that you might as well have called someone up from the CBA.

That 92-93 season really represented a nadir for the team and got the front office to move Jeff Malone and got us Horny. The Jazz won 47 games that year. Think about that. Stock and Malone were 29 and 30, and winning 6 games over .500. Jeff Malone was actually benched for Jay Humphries at one point that year. That actually slightly improved the bench, because other players were even worse than Jeff Malone. The Jazz finally get rid of him and get Horny, and the team loses in the WCF to the Rockets, but it's ok, because Horny has only been here for a few months. Next year they gel and win 60 games and get the Rockets in the first round. Easy, right? Except that the Rockets had gotten Clyde, and have prime Olajuwon, and the Jazz have Felton Spencer. Oh, and Spencer goes down in January and the Jazz start Carr for 4 games and he does okay, but the Jazz FO's solution to this is to go to Greece and convince a 37 year old James Donaldson to come back to the US and start for the Jazz the rest of the season.

Donaldson, of course, being best known for being an All-Star a decade earlier because the rules say you must have 12 players at the game, no matter what. Awesome. The Jazz get knocked out in a heartbreaking game 5, as Hakeem hits 10-16 from the field and shoots 20 free throws, being guarded by a combination of Donaldson, Keefe, and Carr. With Carr and Keefe having to slide over and back up Donaldson, that leaves a taxidermied corpse of Tom Chambers to play back up minutes at PF. Oh, and Jamie Watson came off the bench, too. By the way, if you're paying attention, you'll notice the Jazz had 4 players come off the bench only, the shortest one being a 6'7 SF. Welcome to the Jazz '95 playoffs guard rotation. Stockton, Hornacek, aaaaand.....nobody.

Next year, we came oh-so-close to making the Finals, but Malone couldn't hit free throws in either game 5 or 7, when just a couple of them would've won the series. Stock also had a stinker of a series, but again, it's the terrible supporting cast that stands out. Chris Morris was the big FA signing to push the Jazz over the top and he played 16 minutes a game in that series against the Sonics. Hit every third shot, but got paid more than Hornacek that year. As much as Dennis Rodman, too. The center spot was again amazing. Spencer started, but the Jazz elected to have center-by-committee and played Foster and a rookie Ostertag there, too.

Not sure what other duo at the time could've done more with that they had to work with.
 
The success of Stockton and Malone really shows how good they were considering how bad those teams around them were around them. Sometimes I feel bad for the reputation Malone had for shrinking in the playoffs considering he was 98% of our scoring offense. Stockton and Malone are probably the most underrated superstars of all time. Give Stockton and Malone Ewing’s knocks or Barkley and Johnson’s suns and they have multiple chips. IMO of course
 
JimLes said:
This recent indirect attention on Stockton and Malone made me look back at their careers and I had to remind myself of just how bad their supporting casts were. I mean, even I had actually forgotten how bad.

Like, Jeff Malone was not just a terrible defender(I wish I could find an ESPN article from a few years back that looks at advanced stats and claims he might have been one of the worst of all time, considering how much he played), but he's one of the handful of guys to average 20+ points in a season and have a Value-over-replacement player of 0. And I think he's the only one to ever do it on a winning team. That's ridiculous. Dude scores 20 a game but costs you on average enough points that you might as well have called someone up from the CBA.

That 92-93 season really represented a nadir for the team and got the front office to move Jeff Malone and got us Horny. The Jazz won 47 games that year. Think about that. Stock and Malone were 29 and 30, and winning 6 games over .500. Jeff Malone was actually benched for Jay Humphries at one point that year. That actually slightly improved the bench, because other players were even worse than Jeff Malone. The Jazz finally get rid of him and get Horny, and the team loses in the WCF to the Rockets, but it's ok, because Horny has only been here for a few months. Next year they gel and win 60 games and get the Rockets in the first round. Easy, right? Except that the Rockets had gotten Clyde, and have prime Olajuwon, and the Jazz have Felton Spencer. Oh, and Spencer goes down in January and the Jazz start Carr for 4 games and he does okay, but the Jazz FO's solution to this is to go to Greece and convince a 37 year old James Donaldson to come back to the US and start for the Jazz the rest of the season.

Donaldson, of course, being best known for being an All-Star a decade earlier because the rules say you must have 12 players at the game, no matter what. Awesome. The Jazz get knocked out in a heartbreaking game 5, as Hakeem hits 10-16 from the field and shoots 20 free throws, being guarded by a combination of Donaldson, Keefe, and Carr. With Carr and Keefe having to slide over and back up Donaldson, that leaves a taxidermied corpse of Tom Chambers to play back up minutes at PF. Oh, and Jamie Watson came off the bench, too. By the way, if you're paying attention, you'll notice the Jazz had 4 players come off the bench only, the shortest one being a 6'7 SF. Welcome to the Jazz '95 playoffs guard rotation. Stockton, Hornacek, aaaaand.....nobody.

Next year, we came oh-so-close to making the Finals, but Malone couldn't hit free throws in either game 5 or 7, when just a couple of them would've won the series. Stock also had a stinker of a series, but again, it's the terrible supporting cast that stands out. Chris Morris was the big FA signing to push the Jazz over the top and he played 16 minutes a game in that series against the Sonics. Hit every third shot, but got paid more than Hornacek that year. As much as Dennis Rodman, too. The center spot was again amazing. Spencer started, but the Jazz elected to have center-by-committee and played Foster and a rookie Ostertag there, too.

Not sure what other duo at the time could've done more with that they had to work with.
Click to expand...
Would rep
 
JimLes said:
Like, Jeff Malone was not just a terrible defender(I wish I could find an ESPN article from a few years back that looks at advanced stats and claims he might have been one of the worst of all time, considering how much he played), but he's one of the handful of guys to average 20+ points in a season and have a Value-over-replacement player of 0. And I think he's the only one to ever do it on a winning team. That's ridiculous. Dude scores 20 a game but costs you on average enough points that you might as well have called someone up from the CBA.
Click to expand...

I seem to recall Jordan once saying J Malone was the most difficult player he'd ever gone up against.

I found this
Air Jordan is so gifted and so smart that it should not be possible for a player of mortal gifts to neutralize him. Yet, because of the constraints of his Chicago role, there are players who fare far better against Jordan than logic would suggest. Jeff Malone of the Washington Bullets, for instance.

In 16 head-to-head meetings over the last four years, Malone and Jordan have guarded each other most of the time; Malone has consistently elevated his statistics while bringing Jordan’s down to earth. Well, down from the ionosphere anyway.

In those four years, Jordan has averaged 32.4 points per game on .502 shooting. But against Malone, his average is 28.7 per game and his percentage is .449. Malone improved his scoring mark from 21.1 to 24.1 and his percentage from .478 to .487 against Jordan. In lay lingo, Malone has found a way to be 90 percent as good as Jordan when they go head to head.

“I do secret things I wouldn’t tell anybody,” says Malone, grinning. Then gives away his secrets. “I make Michael play defense. If he scores, I try to put it right back on him at the other end. Don’t let him get excited.”
Click to expand...
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-03-20-sp-2137-story.html
 
Scat said:
I seem to recall Jordan once saying J Malone was the most difficult player he'd ever gone up against.
Click to expand...

This is also the man who took Kwame over Gasol and a few other future All Stars. That alone should make you question his player assessment skills, without even considering the less-than-stellar record down in Charlotte.
 
The millers were managing to a budget and only threw minimum salary guys on the bench. Look at players 8-12, it was whoever we could get for cheap
 
JimLes said:
This recent indirect attention on Stockton and Malone made me look back at their careers and I had to remind myself of just how bad their supporting casts were. I mean, even I had actually forgotten how bad.

Like, Jeff Malone was not just a terrible defender(I wish I could find an ESPN article from a few years back that looks at advanced stats and claims he might have been one of the worst of all time, considering how much he played), but he's one of the handful of guys to average 20+ points in a season and have a Value-over-replacement player of 0. And I think he's the only one to ever do it on a winning team. That's ridiculous. Dude scores 20 a game but costs you on average enough points that you might as well have called someone up from the CBA.

That 92-93 season really represented a nadir for the team and got the front office to move Jeff Malone and got us Horny. The Jazz won 47 games that year. Think about that. Stock and Malone were 29 and 30, and winning 6 games over .500. Jeff Malone was actually benched for Jay Humphries at one point that year. That actually slightly improved the bench, because other players were even worse than Jeff Malone. The Jazz finally get rid of him and get Horny, and the team loses in the WCF to the Rockets, but it's ok, because Horny has only been here for a few months. Next year they gel and win 60 games and get the Rockets in the first round. Easy, right? Except that the Rockets had gotten Clyde, and have prime Olajuwon, and the Jazz have Felton Spencer. Oh, and Spencer goes down in January and the Jazz start Carr for 4 games and he does okay, but the Jazz FO's solution to this is to go to Greece and convince a 37 year old James Donaldson to come back to the US and start for the Jazz the rest of the season.

Donaldson, of course, being best known for being an All-Star a decade earlier because the rules say you must have 12 players at the game, no matter what. Awesome. The Jazz get knocked out in a heartbreaking game 5, as Hakeem hits 10-16 from the field and shoots 20 free throws, being guarded by a combination of Donaldson, Keefe, and Carr. With Carr and Keefe having to slide over and back up Donaldson, that leaves a taxidermied corpse of Tom Chambers to play back up minutes at PF. Oh, and Jamie Watson came off the bench, too. By the way, if you're paying attention, you'll notice the Jazz had 4 players come off the bench only, the shortest one being a 6'7 SF. Welcome to the Jazz '95 playoffs guard rotation. Stockton, Hornacek, aaaaand.....nobody.

Next year, we came oh-so-close to making the Finals, but Malone couldn't hit free throws in either game 5 or 7, when just a couple of them would've won the series. Stock also had a stinker of a series, but again, it's the terrible supporting cast that stands out. Chris Morris was the big FA signing to push the Jazz over the top and he played 16 minutes a game in that series against the Sonics. Hit every third shot, but got paid more than Hornacek that year. As much as Dennis Rodman, too. The center spot was again amazing. Spencer started, but the Jazz elected to have center-by-committee and played Foster and a rookie Ostertag there, too.

Not sure what other duo at the time could've done more with that they had to work with.
Click to expand...
Sucks they couldn’t do more but they did try a couple times and Harper and Seikley went diva on them.

Sloan was also awesome but I do wonder if he was too rigid. I don’t know... we had amazing chances to beat the GOAT and came up short... we shot 22% from three in the last finals... we were a much better shooting team than that. I’ve made peace with it but I do wonder if that was the best chance I’ll see in my lifetime.
 
NAOS said:
There’s some pretty incredible things in there. Like, running 8 miles in just over 42min without prior training? That’s ****ing ridiculous, if true.
Click to expand...
When I’m running regularly, I feel pretty good about 5 miles in an hour. I’d be absolutely dead doing 6 miles in an hour and not sure I’ve ever gotten close to anything like that. 8 miles in 42 minutes? That’s 11.5 mph. I could maybe keep that pace for 90 seconds (if I could do that pace, not even sure I could... treadmills only go to 10... I guess I’d need a Spinal Tap treadmill).
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Sucks they couldn’t do more but they did try a couple times and Harper and Seikley went diva on them.
Click to expand...

I wish the team did more with their draft picks. The Jazz so rarely traded away FR picks after drafting Malone in 1985, and a lot of those players are duds. I mean, I get that when you make playoffs 18 years in a row, you're not picking with a lot of great players on the board. I guess it's like @silesian said, the picks provided the Millers with cheap guys for the end of the rotation. The couple of times the Jazz traded their FR pick was to get Jeff Malone and then to get rid of Jeff Malone. In the meantime, those picks they did keep never really turned into actual help. I won't even get into the Luther Wright thing. Even before the days of social media, someone on that Seton Hall campus should've been able to tell you how much drugs and alcohol that guy consumed if you snooped around a little.

Then there was the weird thing when in both 1996 and 1998 the Jazz drafted a player and immediately traded him for a future 1st round pick. Great, but then why not use those two picks to get someone. Why not send two firsts and maybe even one of your own with Shandon Anderson(the one asset, I suppose at the time) to someone for a player who might have put the Jazz over the top in that lockout season? Or since no one could really predict just how good Kirilenko for a brief while would be, why not take the 3 first round picks in '99, and maybe even throw in one of the two owned in '00 and move up? I know these are different times, but it feels like 4 FR picks could get you to move up a little higher than 19. Malone and Stockton still had just enough left in the tank that maybe someone like Marion could've gotten us a run to the WCFs in 2001.

It just feels like for a couple of decades, the Jazz were super conservative with low FR picks and kept getting players like Leckner or Vaughn or Padgett or Borchardt. That 2004 draft was terrible, too. The Jazz had the 14th and 16th pick and ended up with Kim Kardashian's whitest husband yet and a future prison league MVP. Big Al was picked between them, so that could've saved us a trade exception. Or send Gordan Giriček and those two picks to Philly for their pick and take Iguodala. That might have been a championship in 2007 or 2008.
 
Oh, oh. I forgot the best one. The time in 2005 when we traded 3 players we spent FR picks on in the 4 years prior to get Greg Ostertag back from Sacramento so he could retire a Jazz man and have his jersey raised to the rafters. Having wanted no part of him the summer before and allowing him to leave for free.
 
JimLes said:
Oh, oh. I forgot the best one. The time in 2005 when we traded 3 players we spent FR picks on in the 4 years prior to get Greg Ostertag back from Sacramento so he could retire a Jazz man and have his jersey raised to the rafters. Having wanted no part of him the summer before and allowing him to leave for free.
Click to expand...
This is one of my favorites. I wonder how something like that would go down in this era of social media and instant accountability.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top