Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement

[JimLes]

my thing is I’ve always had positive experiences.

These are not at all positive experiences. The outcome might have been positive for you and your interests, but these are decidedly negative experiences. Both of these cops abused power, just like the one in Fish's story. The only difference is that you liked being let off the hook while he obviously didn't like being roughed up.

The real issue here is that police officers are supposed to be part of the executive branch, but have been usurping powers of the other two forever and believing themselves entitled to it, to boot. A police officer who decides not to ticket you for speeding is acting as either or both the legislative and the judicial branch, which they are not and should never be.

These are simply two sides of the same coin: the cop who lets you go because they've decided that they make the laws or interpret them, and the cop who kills a suspect because they're criminals after all and need to be deal with harshly. Again, the only difference is that one of those benefits you, so you like it. Police officers' powers have gone unchecked in the past, and it has resulted in massive power grabs by them. We've all known someone at some point whose uncle or father or brother or best friend is a cop and who "fixed" tickets for them. Police brutality is, as we can see, a normal daily occurrence. These are closely related phenomena.

Police officers serve a hugely important role in our society, and are already given enormous power in exchange for dangers they face. Instead of the society providing close oversight proportional to the scale of that power, we have been doing the opposite for decades. We've allowed them to oversee themselves and to grab even more power. When was the last time you've heard of a police officer facing any sort of discipline for letting someone who sped go without a ticket, for whatever reason? Why are we shocked when these same officers then believe they can also do whatever they want to a suspect?

 

[fishonjazz]

my thing is I’ve always had positive experiences. Got pulled over in high school for going 35 in a 25 headed back from lunch. Officer asked us a few questions... then said “look we all make mistakes... you and everyone in your car are wearing seat belts... don’t be such a dumbass in a hurry that you go too fast and keep wearing your seatbelts...” then he let us go without a warning.

Another experience being pulled behind my buddy’s car from a rope on a skateboard... was residential and no traffic... but cop sees us and stops us... just looks at us like man you guys are dumb... says he’s never arrested/ticketed anyone for this and tells us to stop and laughs and let’s us go our way.

Naive me thinks all cops are like this... serving the public and not bullying people... now I think... well I was also a clean cut white kid... what if I had been black?

I have had a couple of positive experiences with cops and I had one other mostly negative experience with a cop but it wasn't anything extreme and I was in the wrong. (I was in the wrong in that situation in high school too but the cop handled it poorly)

I got pulled over one time for speeding and I had my wife's engagement ring on me and I told him I was late to our activity at which I was proposing and that's why I was speeding (a lie) and he was way cool. He was like, "ok get out of here and speed a little bit but be careful" and he gave me a wink.

Another time I got pulled over after buying a quarter oz of weed (I was 17 years old) and the cop busted me but was way cool about it. I did get a fine in the mail (my parents got to it before me and they WERE NOT cool about it. Which is good parenting) but while the cop had me pulled over he was way cool.
While he was writing paperwork I grabbed the bag of weed off the back of his car and put it in my pocket without him seeing. He noticed it missing after he finished his paperwork and started searching us (I had a few buddies with me) and found it in my pocket and he just laughed and said nice try. (One of my passengers also had a new bag of weed in him but it was in his whitey tighties and he didn't get caught. I started keeping my weed in my underwear after that incident)

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[LogGrad98]

So another video where I saw three cops on Floyd. Awful.

I agree with Thriller. A college degree, paramilitary-like training like State Troopers (at least here in NJ) get, thorough background checks (including past social media posts), and mandatory annual physical and academic requirements to keep up to par. And thorough investigations into misconduct by an independent team.

No more fat, racist, dumbasses.

Imo part of the problem lies in the money. They don't get paid enough to compete with private sector jobs, so people who want power but likely couldn't get it in the private sector turn to policing as a way to get the power they want. I think it's somewhat like teaching. You either get dedicated people who want to be teachers, or people who can't do anything else, because the pay is not attracting the "top talent".

 

[fishonjazz]

Imo part of the problem lies in the money. They don't get paid enough to compete with private sector jobs, so people who want power but likely couldn't get it in the private sector turn to policing as a way to get the power they want. I think it's somewhat like teaching. You either get dedicated people who want to be teachers, or people who can't do anything else, because the pay is not attracting the "top talent".

Ya I think teachers and cops should be paid more. I wouldn't want to be in either profession although I think I could be pretty good at both because the pay isn't equal to the stress.

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[Beer]

Here's my take:

The people starting these fires probably aren't even black people and perhaps maybe not even from that community. But they're opportunistic. And in a rush to say we need to listen to what certain communities are saying and "judge them less," we're likely inadvertently misattributing a lot of these acts to people in this community because "well, yeah, it kinda makes sense." I think there's a subtle level of underlying racism in that.

I've seen a ton of white people in these looting photos. Almost every single one has a white person in it.

 

[LogGrad98]

Let’s just hope the next big climate shock (of the sort that would really impact food supplies or displace millions of people) doesn’t happen this year or next. We all need some significant recovery time with some sagely leadership.

So you're saying we are screwed.

 

[The Thriller]

This probably isn't going to help things in Minnesota tonight. Expect more burning.



Seriously? The cop had his knee in the guy's neck for 9 minutes. This family needs an independent autopsy.

 

[LogGrad98]

Ya I think teachers and cops should be paid more. I wouldn't want to be in either profession although I think I could be pretty good at both because the pay isn't equal to the stress.

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I wouldn't have minded being a teacher. I almost became a German professor, in fact. Did a summer gig in Germany at a university in fact. But in the end the money was the real stumbling block for me. I've probably made twice what I would have made as a teacher or even a professor in my current profession. At least 50% more overall.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

These are not at all positive experiences. The outcome might have been positive for you and your interests, but these are decidedly negative experiences. Both of these cops abused power, just like the one in Fish's story. The only difference is that you liked being let off the hook while he obviously didn't like being roughed up.

The real issue here is that police officers are supposed to be part of the executive branch, but have been usurping powers of the other two forever and believing themselves entitled to it, to boot. A police officer who decides not to ticket you for speeding is acting as either or both the legislative and the judicial branch, which they are not and should never be.

These are simply two sides of the same coin: the cop who lets you go because they've decided that they make the laws or interpret them, and the cop who kills a suspect because they're criminals after all and need to be deal with harshly. Again, the only difference is that one of those benefits you, so you like it. Police officers' powers have gone unchecked in the past, and it has resulted in massive power grabs by them. We've all known someone at some point whose uncle or father or brother or best friend is a cop and who "fixed" tickets for them. Police brutality is, as we can see, a normal daily occurrence. These are closely related phenomena.

Police officers serve a hugely important role in our society, and are already given enormous power in exchange for dangers they face. Instead of the society providing close oversight proportional to the scale of that power, we have been doing the opposite for decades. We've allowed them to oversee themselves and to grab even more power. When was the last time you've heard of a police officer facing any sort of discipline for letting someone who sped go without a ticket, for whatever reason? Why are we shocked when these same officers then believe they can also do whatever they want to a suspect?

I mean I guess part of what you are saying is true... but it’s not like I needed to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law to learn the lesson... I adjusted behavior and the officers treated it as a teaching moment without being bullies or abusing power. I’ve also been issued tickets but deserved it and the officers were fair and not douches. I have a few friends in law enforcement and from what I see in their personal lives they are great people. It’s been mostly positive on my end... all I was saying.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I've seen a ton of white people in these looting photos. Almost every single one has a white person in it.

I mean it is Minnesota... not sure it’s a super diverse area ‍

 

[infection]

I've seen a ton of white people in these looting photos. Almost every single one has a white person in it.

I think that may, at least partially, be an unfortunate irony in all of this. As the discussion surrounding the rioting being an appropriate response to racial injustice, what’s missed is who the actual victims are of all of this, and it’s African Americans. But I’d imagine any of the white people helping burn down African American communities feels empowered in their brave stand against racial injustice.

 

[One Brow]

This probably isn't going to help things in Minnesota tonight. Expect more burning.



Seriously? The cop had his knee in the guy's neck for 9 minutes. This family needs an independent autopsy.

While I would not object to an independent autopsy, 1) that the guy kept talking for several minutes means his throat wasn't crushed, and 2) this autopsy does implicate the police restraint in his death. Having a knee on your neck could no doubt cause death in many ways besides a crushed larynx.

 

[LogGrad98]

While I would not object to an independent autopsy, 1) that the guy kept talking for several minutes means his throat wasn't crushed, and 2) this autopsy does implicate the police restraint in his death. Having a knee on your neck could no doubt cause death in many ways besides a crushed larynx.

Most likely cut off blood flow to the brain. That can happen while the person is completely able to breathe.

 

[Archie Moses]

This probably isn't going to help things in Minnesota tonight. Expect more burning.



Seriously? The cop had his knee in the guy's neck for 9 minutes. This family needs an independent autopsy.

Who cares? He was murdered either way. I don't need an autopsy to show his neck was broken or he died from asphyxiation to know that.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Who cares? He was murdered either way. I don't need an autopsy to show his neck was broken or he died from asphyxiation to know that.

I mean just because A and B happen it doesn't mean A caused B... like if the jazz always lose when I wear certain socks does that mean the socks caused the loss? Just because a man was standing on this guys neck for 8 minutes and he died doesn't mean that is what caused it.... they could be completely unrelated (all sarcasm).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think the autopsy should have included this line at the end "maybe he just got the Rona? It could have been anything really."

 

[fishonjazz]

Who cares? He was murdered either way. I don't need an autopsy to show his neck was broken or he died from asphyxiation to know that.

Even if he didn't die. I have always thought that cops over do it when they have a subdued and cuffed person on the ground. Cops kneeling on people's heads or necks while the suspect is on the ground and subdued and cuffed has been going on for a long time. And not just to minorities. I have seen that scenario play out on cops tv show many times. It kind of seems like standard procedure. Doesn't seem like it should be though.

Cops should be able to be pretty rough with suspects up until they are down and cuffed imo. Once they have them down and cuffed I think they should ease up a bit with the amount of force used.

And I'm not a cop so maybe it isn't that easy in the heat of moment with your adrenaline going. Idk.

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[NAOS]

So you're saying we are screwed.

Yes.


It’s still better if Trump isn’t re-elected; but yes, the general view shows us getting some degree of screwed.

 

[Keefe]

I mean just because A and B happen it doesn't mean A caused B... like if the jazz always lose when I wear certain socks does that mean the socks caused the loss? Just because a man was standing on this guys neck for 8 minutes and he died doesn't mean that is what caused it.... they could be completely unrelated (all sarcasm).

Jesus I had a post all typed up and was gonna lambaste you and then thankfully decided to read the whole post.

 

[Jazzman12]

MLK has a good quote about this.

…I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.

This is a great post and sums up the riot mentality quite well. Americans want to be outraged by these violent protests, but all of the same people turned their back on the NFL when it’s minority players found a good way to stage a peaceful protest in kneeling during the national anthem to bring awareness to people of color dying at the hands of law enforcement. They can’t win! While it’s very sad to see, I watch these riots on my TV with an understanding of how and why it got to this point.

It still blows my mind that I can see a bunch of fat, armed and angry white guys playing soldier, berating people while using lethal intimidation tactics and not a single arrest, nor an ounce of tear gas gets used. It’s infuriating.