Conley For Horford Discussion

[Jazz4ever]

Be smarter than saying Bradley is better than Horford. That is such an ignorant statement. Horford fits awful next to Embiid because Embiid doesn't set good screens or defend all that well.

Conley for Horford AND ASSETS only IF Conley doesn't fit well in the playoffs.

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It wouldn't be a good fit in Utah either. Embiid is a very good defender, not Rudy level, but good.

 

[Avery]

Holford might just have the worst contract in the NBA. He’s unreadable unless you basically give up more assets if you’re Philly.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Conley decided to end this thread once and for all. S - p - l - a - s - h !

 

[hgb]

only IF Conley doesn't fit well in the playoffs

I feel like the jury came back on this question, and the verdict was unanimous.

 

[LoPo]

I feel like the jury came back on this question, and the verdict was unanimous.

So far, yep. Like I said from the beginning, it was just for conversation and nothing I am pushing.

I love hypotheticals and making conversation. As it stands after Game 4, this conversation can probably end.

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[Keefe]

Horford has 3 years reamining in his contract until he is 36, at almost 30M a year. He will soon become washed and thus, one of the worst contracts in the league. You can argue it's one of the worst now as he is looking terrible already. Even if Conley plays only decent bb, he comes off the books in one year and therefore, doesn't cripple our ability to resign Rudy & Donovan without going deep into luxury tax territory. And it's not like you can get great 1st rounders from Philly for acquiring that albatross: they are full of meaningless 2nd rounders. Basketball wise, it makes no sense either: he doesn't fit our system, positional need or timeline. It just doesn't make sense. These are the type of moves you make when you are rebuilding: you absorb a bad contract in order to get decent picks. We are buyers right now, plus Philly assets suck.

You can do better with the trade machine my friend

Soon become washed? He is washed!

 

[Keefe]

Be smarter than saying Bradley is better than Horford. That is such an ignorant statement. Horford fits awful next to Embiid because Embiid doesn't set good screens or defend all that well.

Conley for Horford AND ASSETS only IF Conley doesn't fit well in the playoffs.

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Embiid doesn’t defend all that well? Are you ****ing retarded?

Seriously, Horford is awful. I wouldn’t want him at 12M let alone 30M...for multiple ****ing years.

It was stupid to even suggest getting him. Seriously, admit your mistake and move on.

 

[LoPo]

Embiid doesn’t defend all that well? Are you ****ing retarded?

Seriously, Horford is awful. I wouldn’t want him at 12M let alone 30M...for multiple ****ing years.

It was stupid to even suggest getting him. Seriously, admit your mistake and move on.

Says the guy who hates on Royce for being overpaid.

Of course your overly emotional self can't comprehend the original idea anyway. The trade idea was rationalizing paying Horford because the ATTACHED ASSETS made the contract acceptable. And this was all on the premise that Conley remained a bad fit.

If Conley was playing as badly the last two games as he did during the season, I would still consider this deal come draft time. Like I said originally, all comes down to the assets Philly would give.

Embiid is not a reliable perimeter defender. Horford, as he ages, is becoming less reliable as well. Pairing them was a mistake.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

To be fair we did not get this version of Mike hardly at all this season. Not sure if he was hurt or what but he’s been locked in and on fire last two games and most of it was unforced, beginning of the game we forced it through him I thought.

I’m very happy we getting good Mike and I really hope this continues... we need every ounce of what he can give against the Clippers or Mavs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Revisiting this again... We keep saying we will use our MLE for a backup center and it'd be nice if he was a 4/5 with some stretch. We just watched a playoff with skilled big men really dominating and making a big impact...

Instead of paying $10M a year for a big why wouldn't we do the Conley/Horford swap and get some good assets while we are at it? If he was on the market he'd get 12-15M a year. Conley solves their long term cash crunch and can provide the on-ball help they need and space the floor for Ben and Joel when he doesn't have the ball. They have the defensive length to cover for him.

At a minimum you get #34 this year and their pick next year (I'd ask for unprotected or extremely light protections). It would likely be a late first round but Ben and Joel have some health issues.

I'd also ask for one of Richardson or Milton. I prefer Milton because he's cheap and I think he'd be a great complement to DM long term. He really showed out and was in a super toxic environment. Imagine what a good development team could do. If you got Milton then you might let JC walk or do a sign and trade with him.

Philly is a worse fit for Al than us. They don't run as much screen stuff and their ball handlers aren't threats to shoot off the dribble. You could start Al during the regular season and play him and Rudy together for 10 minutes or so... in the playoffs lineups are by matchup.

We'd have a cash crunch in a couple years but it isn't an insolvable one... good GMs figure out ways around those issues. Also, at some point if we want to claim to be a contender we will have to pay the tax. Small markets don't have the advantages glamour markets do so you will have to spend like a champ if you want to be one.

 

[LoPo]

Revisiting this again... We keep saying we will use our MLE for a backup center and it'd be nice if he was a 4/5 with some stretch. We just watched a playoff with skilled big men really dominating and making a big impact...

Instead of paying $10M a year for a big why wouldn't we do the Conley/Horford swap and get some good assets while we are at it? If he was on the market he'd get 12-15M a year. Conley solves their long term cash crunch and can provide the on-ball help they need and space the floor for Ben and Joel when he doesn't have the ball. They have the defensive length to cover for him.

At a minimum you get #34 this year and their pick next year (I'd ask for unprotected or extremely light protections). It would likely be a late first round but Ben and Joel have some health issues.

I'd also ask for one of Richardson or Milton. I prefer Milton because he's cheap and I think he'd be a great complement to DM long term. He really showed out and was in a super toxic environment. Imagine what a good development team could do. If you got Milton then you might let JC walk or do a sign and trade with him.

Philly is a worse fit for Al than us. They don't run as much screen stuff and their ball handlers aren't threats to shoot off the dribble. You could start Al during the regular season and play him and Rudy together for 10 minutes or so... in the playoffs lineups are by matchup.

We'd have a cash crunch in a couple years but it isn't an insolvable one... good GMs figure out ways around those issues. Also, at some point if we want to claim to be a contender we will have to pay the tax. Small markets don't have the advantages glamour markets do so you will have to spend like a champ if you want to be one.

I'm glad to see there is more discussion on this topic.

For next season, I personally believe that Horford helps our team more than Conley. He makes $7.5 less than Conley as well as provides us with sorely needed depth at C and PF. He is a proven winner who can do everything at the C position (defend, shoot, pass, etc.).

Most importantly, we get assets in this deal. I would require either Thybulle or Milton PLUS draft picks.

Conley
for
Horford, Thybulle/Milton, #21, #58, and NY's 2021 2nd round pick

 

[Eminence]

I'd do it for Thybulle, otherwise it just massacres our longterm cap for some meh assets.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm glad to see there is more discussion on this topic.

For next season, I personally believe that Horford helps our team more than Conley. He makes $7.5 less than Conley as well as provides us with sorely needed depth at C and PF. He is a proven winner who can do everything at the C position (defend, shoot, pass, etc.).

Most importantly, we get assets in this deal. I would require either Thybulle or Milton PLUS draft picks.

Conley
for
Horford, Thybulle/Milton, #21, #58, and NY's 2021 2nd round pick

I’d want the pick next year plus 34 or 36 next year... they can keep 21. I want a lotto scratcher.

I like Milton more than Thybulle... I think Thybulle is a little overrated. He’s good though.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I just think Al provides a lot of what we need in that 4/5 hybrid. If we can get some good assets then awesome.

 

[latin jazz]

He can't play the 4 anymore. We have Rudy at the 5. He is overpaid and washed. No thanks.

 

[Hekate]

I’d want the pick next year plus 34 or 36 next year... they can keep 21. I want a lotto scratcher.

I like Milton more than Thybulle... I think Thybulle is a little overrated. He’s good though.

You have been all about disruptions and you don't like Thybulle? There isn't a possession he doesn't distrupt a play and he recovers well. His on ball defense is good too, though it gets overrated for sure.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You have been all about disruptions and you don't like Thybulle? There isn't a possession he doesn't distrupt a play and he recovers well. His on ball defense is good too, though it gets overrated for sure.

I like him... I think he is overrated though. He gambles a ton to get his deflections. I'm not convinced the shot is going to be good enough either. I think I'd rather get Bazemore on the cheap.

I was just saying... given the choice I'd take Milton. I think that would likely be an unpopular opinion though. I really like Shake.. would like to see what he could do in more pick and roll and in an intelligent offense.

 

[NAOS]

He can't play the 4 anymore. We have Rudy at the 5. He is overpaid and washed. No thanks.

This is exactly my sticking point. And it’s exactly why I hated the Horford deal for Philly in the first place (and was soundly vindicated). He’s a 5, plain and simple, as far as I can tell.

 

[Joncolton]

Al Horford is going to be 35 years old. He had a negative 10 +/- in the playoffs.

Mike Conley still gets buckets and can run an offense, and has real, demonstrative value to virtually any team in the NBA. This deal would essentially be Utah trading SoMething for Nothing. Bad strategy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is exactly my sticking point. And it’s exactly why I hated the Horford deal for Philly in the first place (and was soundly vindicated). He’s a 5, plain and simple, as far as I can tell.

Not sure about this. Philly was the worst fit possible because Embiid plays the post and Ben can't shoot... honestly they had no knock down shooters. It would be 10 minutes at PF during the season... more depending on matchup.

Like is he a worse PF than JaMychal Green? He's a much better center than he is.