Can We Please Just Waive NWG?

[KqWIN]

You said... Every team has guys like NWG that are probably worse than Shaq... you also saying that if all the teams are passing on a guy its a problem with him... when every team has guys that aren't good. Sounds like a league problem the way you set it up. Its a circular argument.

It is also likely that he has offers at the minimum and is hoping something better comes along.

At this point I have no interest in discussing it further... I am comfortable saying that if all 30 gms pass on Shaq that they are wrong... full stop.

I already said this, I would sign Shaq in a heartbeat. I thought he would be a BAE guy this summer. I don't agree with the league on him either.

The point was that if every team is passing on him, it can't be a Jazz specific reason why we're passing on him. There is something we don't know that it causing him to have no contract. Whether that's him taking his time on different offers, holding out for something more, or every team does not want him on any contract. It's not some tendency of the Utah Jazz FO that has resulted in him without a contract. If you think that's the case, you're just whining to whine about the Jazz.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I wouldn't call Matisse elite on-ball defender either so there may be a difference in how we view it. I think their on ball defense is pretty much the same but Matisse's range of impact is much larger and that makes him kinda special.

I think both guys are elite perimeter defenders and its tough to say matisse has a bigger range of impact when their "do ****" numbers are either the same or favor Shaq (sample size I know).

The on/off numbers heavily favor Shaq in the argument... so the impact you are giving him credit for is strictly based on the eye test. I'm fine with that. Shaq's team was 8 pts better per 100 possessions with him on the floor and had a defensive rating of 103... Matisse was only 1.2 pts better and they were a 109 with him on the floor and he obviously plays with much better defensive talent.

 

[infection]

I already said this, I would sign Shaq in a heartbeat. I thought he would be a BAE guy this summer. I don't agree with the league on him either.

The point was that if every team is passing on him, it can't be a Jazz specific reason why we're passing on him. There is something we don't know that it causing him to have no contract. Whether that's him taking his time on different offers, holding out for something more, or every team does not want him on any contract. It's not some tendency of the Utah Jazz FO that has resulted in him without a contract. If you think that's the case, you're just whining to whine about the Jazz.

I’m not certain why what anyone else is doing is relevant, though. Nobody else wanted Ingles and Royce. So what? If your wife slept with the plumber, does it matter if he slept with half the neighborhood’s wives as well, or are you just trying to whine about your wife?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I already said this, I would sign Shaq in a heartbeat. I thought he would be a BAE guy this summer. I don't agree with the league on him either.

The point was that if every team is passing on him, it can't be a Jazz specific reason why we're passing on him. There is something we don't know that it causing him to have no contract. Whether that's him taking his time on different offers, holding out for something more, or every team does not want him on any contract. It's not some tendency of the Utah Jazz FO that has resulted in him without a contract. If you think that's the case, you're just whining to whine about the Jazz.

I'm saying there are several bad assumptions here...

1- that every team is passing him
2- that teams are right when they move together in passing on a guy
3- there is something we don't know about him.


He is likely weighing some different offers. If that is the case it is rational to think the Jazz could and should step in with something better.

I am not whining about him specifically but that we don't bring in someone else with a better shot at contributing. Like if Mike goes down for the season who are you more comfortable with... Neto or NWG? Neto would cost the same amount. The only reason we hang on to him is he's DL pet project.

Its just ****ing maddening that for two years I said they should decline TB's option and folks here defend how he is getting better and look at the G League numbers and yada yada. But we hold on to him as a DL pet project. Then we pay to dump him. The only reason DL is keeping NWG here is he is a pet project and its easier than doing something else. But again JazzFanzers are all "lolz this aint about basketball reference and DL is unquestionably doing the right thing all the time".

I apologize that I have a brain and don't trust the front office in every aspect and am not afraid to say it.

 

[homeytennis]

The reason we have NWG is that DL got caught with his pants down with the Neto situation last summer and NWG slid into the salary slot that was needed.

 

[KqWIN]

I'm saying there are several bad assumptions here...

1- that every team is passing him
2- that teams are right when they move together in passing on a guy
3- there is something we don't know about him.


He is likely weighing some different offers. If that is the case it is rational to think the Jazz could and should step in with something better.

I am not whining about him specifically but that we don't bring in someone else with a better shot at contributing. Like if Mike goes down for the season who are you more comfortable with... Neto or NWG? Neto would cost the same amount. The only reason we hang on to him is he's DL pet project.

Its just ****ing maddening that for two years I said they should decline TB's option and folks here defend how he is getting better and look at the G League numbers and yada yada. But we hold on to him as a DL pet project. Then we pay to dump him. The only reason DL is keeping NWG here is he is a pet project and its easier than doing something else. But again JazzFanzers are all "lolz this aint about basketball reference and DL is unquestionably doing the right thing all the time".

I apologize that I have a brain and don't trust the front office in every aspect and am not afraid to say it.

Again...you thinking I'm caping for the FO. How many times must I explicitly say I would drop NWG and sign someone else in a heartbeat. I agree, we should pick up someone. But I also like reason and I don't whine for no reason. If you think the reason why players remained unsigned by 30 teams is that there is something specific about the Jazz...that's just whining to whine and venting out other frustrations about the Jazz FO.

I've said my piece, several times explicitly. But I guess I don't have a brain and I'm just caping for the FO no matter what I say. This is an actual circular discussion.

 

[KqWIN]

I’m not certain why what anyone else is doing is relevant, though. Nobody else wanted Ingles and Royce. So what? If your wife slept with the plumber, does it matter if he slept with half the neighborhood’s wives as well, or are you just trying to whine about your wife?

It's relevant if you think it's a Jazz specific issue. There's an assertion that this refusal to sign a different player is a pattern than plagues the Jazz. If all 30 teams are making the same decision, it's not Jazz specific. That does not mean everyone is right on passing on these unsigned players, it simply means that the decision to pass on these players is not specific to the Jazz. If you can't understand that, I have nothing else for you.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Again...you thinking I'm caping for the FO. How many times must I explicitly say I would drop NWG and sign someone else in a heartbeat. I agree, we should pick up someone. But I also like reason and I don't whine for no reason. If you think the reason why players remained unsigned by 30 teams is that there is something specific about the Jazz...that's just whining to whine and venting out other frustrations about the Jazz FO.

I've said my piece, several times explicitly. But I guess I don't have a brain and I'm just caping for the FO no matter what I say. This is an actual circular discussion.

WTF are we talking about and where did I say this was a Jazz specific argument? Why does that matter? Why can’t I say we should cut NWG without it being whining.

 

[KqWIN]

WTF are we talking about and where did I say this was a Jazz specific argument? Why does that matter? Why can’t I say we should cut NWG without it being whining.

IDK, maybe the multiple times where you said this fits into a pattern that the Jazz have. Being reactive, casting a narrow net, being lazy...The other guy said that this is only a complaint he has with the Jazz because of our fit.

How about you tell me when I made those assumptions? I didn't, expect for the third one because it obvious. Of course NBA teams have more intel than fans. Did I say it makes them right? No. Did I make the assumption that every team is passing on him? No, I explicitly said that he could have offers. Did I explicitly say that the fact that teams are right if they collectively pass on him? No. I explicitly said I would sign him several times and that I disagree with the league.

If you remember, this all started out with simply saying that there's probably something we don't know about Shaq. Could be Shaq already having offers in hand. Could be something in his background. Could be that teams just don't think he's good. Never said I agreed with it, but there is something more at hand here. Whatever it is, it isn't something specific to the Jazz. For all we know, the Jazz could be begging to sign him for the full BAE.

And why does this matter? It doesn't really. I'm just saying that this assertion that this is all the "status quo" for the Jazz doesn't really make sense. But I guess that makes me a stan for the FO.

 

[homeytennis]

I noticed the Jazz have another camp body: Trevon Bluiett signed an exhibit 10 contract right at the same time the Clipps signed Rayjohn Tucker ironically.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

IDK, maybe the multiple times where you said this fits into a pattern that the Jazz have. Being reactive, casting a narrow net, being lazy...The other guy said that this is only a complaint he has with the Jazz because of our fit.

Whatevs on the other stuff. They are reactive though... not gonna recount the whole history of it... but it’s kind of a fact. They do cast a narrow net. Look at all the after draft interviews... look at how Locke and others tell you who they are going to pick before it happens. Hell DL will basically tell you we “got our target” after the draft. He literally said he didn’t like the guys left on the board so they sold a pick in the early second round. He drafts guys from the big ranked programs. He pulled Royce out because he played at Baylor.

DL basically runs 1-2 years late on every change he should make... it isn’t hindsight either I’ve called it multiple times as it happens.

Not sure what to tell you... I don’t think he’s an A+ GM. Not cutting NWG for a better option will be his most recent non-proactive move that will come back to haunt us.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

DL is on record saying that he does not like the off-season and the trade deadline because he does not like moving people and the whole relationship thing. Of course, you could say this is just PR speak, but every single move he makes (or doesn't make, rather) screams this. The question is, to what degree do we sacrifice improvement to accommodate this?

He’s on record as basically telling us he doesn’t cast a wide net too. People don’t listen though.