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Mission Accomplished

Mission Accomplished

Well-Known Member
So, I was listening to Locked on Jazz where Locke was talking with Tony Jones. Locke and Jones were complaining about Jazz fans saying how we don't trust our FO. Tony a Knicks fan was saying from his point of view compared to the Knick FO we should be fully trusting our FO. Not only that but Locke then went on about since he covers our team we should have full trusting in our local reporting team. ....

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Quickly, I would like to say that I like our local coverage is pretty good. I'm not a super fan of TJ. Locke totally is biased with his coverage which hurts his credibility. I listen because he has insights being so close to the team. But, I put little stock into his data analytics. Larson is good but very numbers driven. My problem with numbers is so much skews the data in sports that while analytics works if that is all you go by you will not win.

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Mission Accomplished said:
So, I was listening to Locked on Jazz where Locke was talking with Tony Jones. Locke and Jones were complaining about Jazz fans saying how we don't trust our FO. Tony a Knicks fan was saying from his point of view compared to the Knick FO we should be fully trusting our FO. Not only that but Locke then went on about since he covers our team we should have full trusting in our local reporting team. ....

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"Things could always be worse" is a human concept that encourages complacency However having listened to the same podcast i dont disagree.
 
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Mission Accomplished said:
So, I was listening to Locked on Jazz where Locke was talking with Tony Jones. Locke and Jones were complaining about Jazz fans saying how we don't trust our FO. Tony a Knicks fan was saying from his point of view compared to the Knick FO we should be fully trusting our FO. Not only that but Locke then went on about since he covers our team we should have full trusting in our local reporting team. ....

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I agree that our FO isn't as bad as some, even me, make it out to be. But if the bar is New York, then yes, we should applaud them. That's like applauding a parent who beats his kids because well at least he doesn't kill them.

Regardless, dumping a load of 2nd rounders to save less than $9 million in salary while still being in the luxury deserves a load of scrutiny.
 
Basketball is a pay for performance career just like much of ours. Thus far, the FO is doing a fair job, but fair doesn’t win championships.

We gave draft capital to shed salary - that’s sunk cost that we wisely jettisoned, but the mistake still and will always exist.
 
LoPo said:
I agree that our FO isn't as bad as some, even me, make it out to be. But if the bar is New York, then yes, we should applaud them. That's like applauding a parent who beats his kids because well at least he doesn't kill them.

Regardless, dumping a load of 2nd rounders to save less than $9 million in salary while still being in the luxury deserves a load of scrutiny.
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What annoys me is that we always seem to lose on most transactions we are making. Like we gave away a second and Bradley to get money. Verses later Detroit moved Bradley for a shut down young defender Zaire Smith. The list goes on and on. Our FO hit two homeruns with Mitchell and Rudy that will cover up for the rest of their mistakes. I just get annoyed with our seemly snobby media thinking they are like oracles when for the most part they are apologists.

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This is pretty much what I've said about TJ previous. He comes from being a Knicks fan and seeing what they've done over the past 25 years since their underdog finals run is pretty amazing to watch such a large franchise fail so hard on such a large stage. I think he really respects the FO and I do believe the comparison has him not seeing eye-to-eye with other Jazz fans. I think from Jazz fans perspective, we're been a decent team for a long time, we've never won a championship, but gotten pretty close, and we want to go over the top. TJ just wants a team that can come out each year and compete. In this sense, every time he says trust the FO, it's with the lens of "hey, they're putting a competitive team on the floor," but what Jazz fans are hearing is "hey, this is already a contender." Thus, I think he may see us as privileged and spoiled. But people hated Trump so much that they're jumping up and down for... Joe Biden. I think that's what we're seeing here.
 
I see the FO recent questionable moves as venial sins at worst. What sometimes gets lost is that the FO doesn't have the incredible wisdom and perspective of armchair quarterbacks who compare everything to moves that happen after. Like Mission said, you've got to acknowledge Donovan and Rudy and even Bogey and Jordan compared to losing someone like Bradley, who looked like he might be worth the potential where he was drafted but who never really took those last steps into a reliable bench player. I also think Royce and Joe are solid pickups that others clearly overlooked. Maybe Oni works out in that same vein. And I actually really like our draft picks this year (for where we drafted). I live in Kansas, so I've seen Udoka's play a lot. He'll bring a toughness off the bench behind Rudy that we haven't had (and wouldn't have had with Bradley). Finally (too much coffee this morning, my apologies to anyone reading this far), I'm happy with the Favs deal. He and Udoka totally firm up the 4-5 around Rudy, which pretty much had Rudy on an island in so many games last year. And I'm in the minority who think the Conley gambit will pay off this year.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I will say that the fact no one really criticized the Tucker move is kind of bad. I do agree that is a "mountain out of a mole hill" thing (I think Larsen had some tweets), but they should still acknowledge the move was weak.
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This.

And many other things were also very poorly analyzed in that podcast.

All said, that was one of the more infuriating Locke podcasts. I probably listen to 25% of the podcasts from preseason to postseason, but frrrrreal, this particular podcast will probably drop that number.
 
Locke talking about fans “wasting oxygen” is kinda funny to me.

They are a c+ front office that get treated like a bunch of mensas. Locke thought it was pretty spectacular that they were able to get off TB and Ed while giving up multiple seconds... not really that’s pretty average and the fact that those contracts got flipped for arguable more value after is kinda dumb. Did you canvas the league really because it feels like maybe you could have cut out the middle man and saved yourself a couple seconds.

But if you bring this up you are petty... making a mountain out of a mile hill... you are ungrateful swine... you must worship the front office and praise any deals they see fit to execute.

But seriously they are generally sloppy around the edges (name of your sex tape) . I really hope we end up in the tax by like a few thousand dollars so Ryan can see how sloppy they are.
 
Gobert, Mitchell, Ingles, and O'Neale...that's what I would consider to be the core of this team and it's all around the margins. Fact is, those moves alone have guaranteed more success than most FO's are able to achieve. People do tend to throw that in the can and not acknowledge it as much as they should. If they were a fan of a team who has been bad for a decade, they would recognize that achievement and not take it for granted.

As fans, we will spend more time complaining about something simple like drafting Bradley or Udoka instead of acknowledging the killer trades made for Gobert and Mitchell. Comparing the actual impact of these moves to how much complaining/credit we give is hilarious. Then we'll get into these rabbit holes where the FO is terrible at this or that because they didn't decide to do exactly what we would have done. If they don't sign the FA we like out of the bargain bin, they are terrible even though their process got them O'Neale and Ingles.

The FO has definitely made some terrible moves and are objectively terrible in some areas. The Conley trade will go down as one of the worst in a long time and the initial Hayward negotiation was awful. There have been other poor moves around the margin, but those two moves in particular cost this team a real shot at a championship. But winning a championship is hard. This franchise has never won a championship and neither has half the league. We play in arguably the worst market in the league, and we haven't had owners who are enthusiastic about spending. Winning a championship cannot be the standard.

Quite honestly, I think the coaching has been just as bad if not worse than the FO in the last couple of seasons. The Jazz are still a very good team, but you cannot convince me that Quin has gotten the most out of this roster.
 
Our front office is competent. They're just a bit conservative in their decision making so as to operate within the constraints of being a small market that has had a difficult time attracting and retaining free agents. They generally make good, rational decisions in drafting and roster construction, but they rarely swing for the fence when it comes to seeking high-ceiling talent.

They could have gone after Christian Wood, for example, and made whatever roster moves were necessary if they reached an agreement with him. However, they went with the staid and proven strategy of re-acquiring Derrick Favors. This is the type of thinking that results in the Jazz consistently ending up as a 4th or 5th seed, rather than a legit contender in the west.

See if we don't end up the 4th seed again, this time behind both LA teams and either Portland or Denver.
 
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Well, I'm more on the topic of some of our media always talking down to us as fans.

Our front office seems to always lose on transactions they are making example giving up seconds to move players for money. Not grabbing Jaden McDaniels. Even if Udokoka was their main target I think they could have bought a second or traded one of the three players we moved for cash to get him.

All that being said Mitchell and Gobert are homeruns. I doubt they knew then what we see now about those two but props.

Also, another thought why were they pumping Bradley so much throughout the season and off season. Just seems like weird tactics. Or even giving Tucker a run to later move him for nothing. Perplexing...

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Catchall said:
Our front office is competent. They're just a bit conservative in their decision making so as to operate within the constraints of being a small market that has had a difficult time attracting and retaining free agents. They generally make good, rational decisions in drafting and roster construction, but they rarely swing for the fence when it comes to seeking high-ceiling talent.

They could have gone after Christian Wood, for example, and made whatever roster moves were necessary if they reached an agreement with him. However, they went with the staid and proven strategy of re-acquiring Derrick Favors. This is the type of thinking that results in the Jazz consistently ending up as a 4th or 5th seed, rather than a legit contender in the west.

See if we don't end up the 4th seed again, this time behind both LA teams and either Portland or Denver.
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I don't think they're necessarily conservative and I wouldn't say their biggest mistakes come from being conservative. Last summer, they were not conservative at all. They overhauled the roster...it was just mostly a failure because they picked the wrong guys. That's just poor evaluation. That's what prevented the Jazz from bumping up a tier...they pushed all their chips to the middle of the table and got Mike Conley out of it.

Chistian Wood signed for significantly more than the MLE btw...we could not have signed him. There's no path to giving him close to the contract that he got.
 
Mission Accomplished said:
Well, I'm more on the topic of some of our media always talking down to us as fans.
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This is something I've found particularly annoying, and largely because of the inconsistency. I get that we can be ungrateful and whatnot (like any fan base can). But the talking down usually comes from the fact of "lol, they the experts and you the stupids." While I understand the sentiment that fans should have more appreciation for what the organization has done here, I think it warrants looking a little into the mirror on this situation, too: the organization, and even the media types, should have a modicum of gratitude regarding the fact that this fan base, despite its flaws, has been as awesome as it has been, has supported this team in this market, made this venture profitable, and has continued to attend games and support this team through thick and thin. The high-horse stuff from the top down is a little off-putting when there's a generalized failure to acknowledge that it's us peasants who keep the lights on. Respect isn't a one-way street that's supposed to flow from the bottom up. I've always said that the Millers sign the checks, but the fans pay the salaries.
 
Locke is really bias, I still enjoy listening to his show every day. The Knicks are not a bar to compare yourself to, they are the floor lol. Being better than the Knicks or Kings is not hard. The Jazz FO is solid but not at the top. Some of what they’ve done this offseason is just not great.
 
infection said:
This is something I've found particularly annoying, and largely because of the inconsistency. I get that we can be ungrateful and whatnot (like any fan base can). But the talking down usually comes from the fact of "lol, they the experts and you the stupids." While I understand the sentiment that fans should have more appreciation for what the organization has done here, I think it warrants looking a little into the mirror on this situation, too: the organization, and even the media types, should have a modicum of gratitude regarding the fact that this fan base, despite its flaws, has been as awesome as it has been, has supported this team in this market, made this venture profitable, and has continued to attend games and support this team through thick and thin. The high-horse stuff from the top down is a little off-putting when there's a generalized failure to acknowledge that it's us peasants who keep the lights on. Respect isn't a one-way street that's supposed to flow from the bottom up. I've always said that the Millers sign the checks, but the fans pay the salaries.
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Absolutely, plus what is wrong about having a different opinion than always being fully brain washer. As many of you remember I could not stand Gordon Hayward at the peak of Hayward's success. I'm not like that with Mitchell. I do have some questions on Rudy but overall I like him on the team. (Just don't want them to pay him the max) But, although unpopular Hayward leaving was great if not the franchise would have still held him as top dog and Mitchell a real top dog IMO would have never blossomed. All that being said the media was all over Hayward until he left and like soldiers they then made an about face. I just get sick of the media being an arm of the FO. Let's hear them be skeptical at times. Don't just talk us down as fans that we have no clue how good we have it. Discuss with us without treating us like imbeciles.

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infection said:
This is something I've found particularly annoying, and largely because of the inconsistency. I get that we can be ungrateful and whatnot (like any fan base can). But the talking down usually comes from the fact of "lol, they the experts and you the stupids." While I understand the sentiment that fans should have more appreciation for what the organization has done here, I think it warrants looking a little into the mirror on this situation, too: the organization, and even the media types, should have a modicum of gratitude regarding the fact that this fan base, despite its flaws, has been as awesome as it has been, has supported this team in this market, made this venture profitable, and has continued to attend games and support this team through thick and thin. The high-horse stuff from the top down is a little off-putting when there's a generalized failure to acknowledge that it's us peasants who keep the lights on. Respect isn't a one-way street that's supposed to flow from the bottom up. I've always said that the Millers sign the checks, but the fans pay the salaries.
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Its especially dumb for Locke to be condescending because he doesn't understand the cap, trade rules, etc. nearly as well as some of the guys here... and so when it comes to the business cap management side he really shouldn't talk.
 
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