Ersan Ilyasova to sign with Jazz per Jordan Schultz

[silesian]

Your point is good but Shandon took minutes from Chris Morris... not from Jeff.

Shandon also took Ostertag's minutes in game 6 of the 1997 finals as the Jazz played Karl at the 5 and went small ball with Shannon at the 3.

I agree that Hornacek's minutes were driven by his health as he was hobbled on one leg. Shannon did not take Horny's minutes.

 

[TheTrippleThreat]

Why would we trade anyone? Who would you let go and what do you expect to get back in return? We are 1st in the league right now. FIRST. Why would we start trading away pieces that are working to our advantage.

Let's say we trade George. How does Don and Rudy feel about that? What kind of relationships has the Mini-van developed? You trade one of your rotation pieces when your playing the best basketball this club has seen in twenty years and other eyebrows will raise.

I know playing armchair GM is fun, but when your leading the race you dont pit stop to change out parts.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Why would we trade anyone? Who would you let go and what do you expect to get back in return? We are 1st in the league right now. FIRST. Why would we start trading away pieces that are working to our advantage.

Let's say we trade George. How does Don and Rudy feel about that? What kind of relationships has the Mini-van developed? You trade one of your rotation pieces when your playing the best basketball this club has seen in twenty years and other eyebrows will raise.

I know playing armchair GM is fun, but when your leading the race you dont pit stop to change out parts.

This is true... but only if the regular season is the race that gets you a title. The playoffs are what win titles and while being in first provides some advantages for the playoffs, it does not put a banner in the rafters.

I'm not a big Draymond Green fan but when he said there are 82 game players and 16 game players he was correct. Niang might not be a 16 game player. Bojan may not be a guy who is as effective in the playoffs because of how he is targeted on defense... we've seen some cracks. To be a champion you can't be married to good... you have to push for great. When Toronto won the title they sacrificed Derozan for Kawhi... they also traded Jonas to get Gasol because Marc was a better playoff performer.

We are built with redundancy that is good for the regular season... in the playoffs you need to be able to change things up because teams will take stuff away from you... may not be in the first or second round, but the higher you go the more flexibility you will need.

 

[colton]

This. Jerry was notorious for not playing rookies.

False narrative in my opinion. That was only because the rookies the Jazz had with Sloan were typically so awful (because the Jazz were do good, draft position was always really low). When Sloan got a really good rookie like Deron Williams, he played him lots.

 

[colton]

- Ersan can rebound. The last three years, he's averaged 9.8 rebounds per 36. To give a comparison, the closest (rotation) player to that who isn't Gobert or Favors is Royce at 7.4. Niang is 5.8 and Bojan is 4.6.

Those numbers are not quite apples-to-apples comparisons, though. Ersan's numbers will likely go down in Utah, perhaps substantially, due to being on the floor with Gobert.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Those numbers are not quite apples-to-apples comparisons, though. Ersan's numbers will likely go down in Utah, perhaps substantially, due to being on the floor with Gobert.

They are also slightly inflated by playing with the Lopez twins who don't rebound themselves much but rather box out and allow others to get the boards.

I do think he is better than Niang/Bojan there by a fair amount.

 

[KqWIN]

The reason why it feels like coaches always overvalue vets it’s because fans overvalue scrubs/young players all the time. It’s easy to say that guy who you haven’t seen play is better than some vet who plays badly all the time when you’re not actually seeing them practice.

I’m not saying coaches are always right, but the majority of the time the reason why someone is planted on the bench is because they aren’t good enough. Moreover, if they are good enough, they will probably find their way on the court no matter who the coach.

I know that someone is going to toss in some Christian Wood esque outlier counter example out there...but I really think people get too caught up in these narratives.

 

[homeytennis]

The reason why it feels like coaches always overvalue vets it’s because fans overvalue scrubs/young players all the time. It’s easy to say that guy who you haven’t seen play is better than some vet who plays badly all the time when you’re not actually seeing them practice.

I’m not saying coaches are always right, but the majority of the time the reason why someone is planted on the bench is because they aren’t good enough. Moreover, if they are good enough, they will probably find their way on the court no matter who the coach.

I know that someone is going to toss in some Christian Wood esque outlier counter example out there...but I really think people get too caught up in these narratives.

It's more likely the scrubbies end up like Bolomboy, Ty Wallace or Marcus Paige.

 

[LogGrad98]

False narrative in my opinion. That was only because the rookies the Jazz had with Sloan were typically so awful (because the Jazz were do good, draft position was always really low). When Sloan got a really good rookie like Deron Williams, he played him lots.

The topic wasn't if Jerry played rookies that were destined to be stars. The topic was did he play them to develop them and give them a chance to mature on the floor. And there were plenty of complaints here on JF and in general about having a reasonably good rookie that just did not get the PT. And even with D Will he sat him often in favor of his vets instead of letting him run the team, like CP3 had free reign to do.

 

[infection]

Those numbers are not quite apples-to-apples comparisons, though. Ersan's numbers will likely go down in Utah, perhaps substantially, due to being on the floor with Gobert.

They are also slightly inflated by playing with the Lopez twins who don't rebound themselves much but rather box out and allow others to get the boards.

I do think he is better than Niang/Bojan there by a fair amount.

I'm not entirely sure about this. Yes, the Lopez brothers suck at rebounding. The past three years I referenced included two from Milwaukee but one from Philadelphia, where he was with Embiid and Simmons. In any case, the idea is that Gobert would take away Ersan's rebounds. One could argue that he isn't sharing the floor a lot with Gobert, and it would be Favors, but I'd be curious on his lineup data with who he shared the floor with in Milwaukee, because the past two years that he was with Giannis, Giannis was averaging 16.1 rebounds per 36 and 13.7 per 36 the year before. But his total rebounding % before Milwaukee was about 13%, compared to about 14% with Milwaukee. I'm in the minority here in thinking that he may see some 5 time.

Any way you slice this, though, he's a much better rebounder than anyone on our team that's not Favors or Gobert, even if we nitpick.

 

[infection]

The reason why it feels like coaches always overvalue vets it’s because fans overvalue scrubs/young players all the time. It’s easy to say that guy who you haven’t seen play is better than some vet who plays badly all the time when you’re not actually seeing them practice.

I’m not saying coaches are always right, but the majority of the time the reason why someone is planted on the bench is because they aren’t good enough. Moreover, if they are good enough, they will probably find their way on the court no matter who the coach.

I know that someone is going to toss in some Christian Wood esque outlier counter example out there...but I really think people get too caught up in these narratives.

Obviously exceptions to this, but I don't believe any of our young guys on the bench fit this criteria. Ersan is definitely the better player and will play before anyone besides Niang, and even then I think eventually we'll see them get comparable minutes, but not necessarily because Ersan is taking Niang's minutes.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not entirely sure about this. Yes, the Lopez brothers suck at rebounding. The past three years I referenced included two from Milwaukee but one from Philadelphia, where he was with Embiid and Simmons. In any case, the idea is that Gobert would take away Ersan's rebounds. One could argue that he isn't sharing the floor a lot with Gobert, and it would be Favors, but I'd be curious on his lineup data with who he shared the floor with in Milwaukee, because the past two years that he was with Giannis, Giannis was averaging 16.1 rebounds per 36 and 13.7 per 36 the year before. But his total rebounding % before Milwaukee was about 13%, compared to about 14% with Milwaukee. I'm in the minority here in thinking that he may see some 5 time.

Any way you slice this, though, he's a much better rebounder than anyone on our team that's not Favors or Gobert, even if we nitpick.

I think Royce and Ersan are close to the same. Ersan is much better than Niang and Bojan though and those are the guys his minutes would be replacing. Last year he was almost never on the court with Giannis. Year before he was on the court a little (1/3 of his minutes-ish)

It isn't that the Lopez are bad rebounders... they are a little unique in that their teams rebound well when they are on the court but they don't get the rebounds themselves. They box and wall off the rebounding area and other guys are able to collect the rebounds easier. It might just be slightly inflated... if his number dip a bit I don't think its because he's worse... just a little different.