Game Thread Jun 16, 2021 08:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Clippers - Game 5

[MT Steve]

Our total defense is damn near 30 points per 100 possessions better with Gobert on the court and people are thinking Gobert's getting played off the court.

Just. lmao.

 

[LoPo]

I believe that Utah's deficiencies on defense in this series aren't because Gobert is being "targetted" or is a "liability", as morons would have you believe. He's having more success than anybody else on the team when he's targetted.

We're struggling on defense because the Clippers can get Gobert away from the rim, thus exposing the dreadful defense of our other players.

People here think Favors sucks on defense because our defense is garbage when he's in. The reality is Favors is a decent defender surrounded by dreadful defenders. Gobert is such a God-tier defender that he can cover for everybody else's deficiencies. Favors cannot.

Thank you for your honest assessment.

I don't think Rudy has been played off the court at all. I just think he's been schemed to be a pretty good defensive influence. And since he provides next to nothing offensively, and isn't rebounding like a man possessed, he's not having the impact I would expect from a $40 million player.

And I'm tired of hearing excuses for Rudy. Y'all make it out like he's playing with the worst perimeter defenders on the planet or in the league. We had an amazing defensive rating in the regular season but now these guys are all bums? Or maybe opponents have found a way to make Rudy a pretty good defensive influence instead of a game changer.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Our total defense is damn near 30 points per 100 possessions better with Gobert on the court and people are thinking Gobert's getting played off the court.

Just. lmao.

Our whole defense is schemed to funnel to Rudy what the **** do you expect. What’s our offensive rating without Mitchell? So dumb.

If we had switchable defenders and didn’t scheme everything to funnel to one player who then can get taken out of the paint and torched on isolation plays I bet our defensive rating would be a whole lot better.

This is elementary stuff or so I thought. Same dude who argued about Paul taking an extra Covid test yesterday.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Thank you for your honest assessment.

I don't think Rudy has been played off the court at all. I just think he's been schemed to be a pretty good defensive influence. And since he provides next to nothing offensively, and isn't rebounding like a man possessed, he's not having the impact I would expect from a $40 million player.

And I'm tired of hearing excuses for Rudy. Y'all make it out like he's playing with the worst perimeter defenders on the planet or in the league. We had an amazing defensive rating in the regular season but now these guys are all bums? Or maybe opponents have found a way to make Rudy a pretty good defensive influence instead of a game changer.

So essentially his offensive impact and salary is not up to par with the defense he plays while schemed against.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Dude Favors is ****ing broken lmao. Imagine if it was a serviceable backup out there.

Favs is a serviceable backup... He is just in over his head with this scheme and matchup. Its not like this is the first time he's struggled to be Rudy when Rudy is off the floor... he was supposed to give us something rolling to the basket and he's been a zero there.

Putting Favs out with JC, and Bojan/Niang was never gonna be pretty.

 

[Elizah Huge]

We are learning the hard way that we can’t win a championship by funneling players to Rudy as an entire defensive scheme. That works in the regular season but in the playoffs it doesn’t.

Our ceiling is capped and it breaks my ****ing heart that we are in this position especially with the Finals being right there. This is the best chance we have had since 1998. Over 23 years.

 

[LoPo]

This....

Here is one thing you won't see a single Jazz fan or analyst say going into Game 6 -

"Rudy Gobert needs to play out of his mind for the Jazz to have a chance to win this game".

Not one person will say that. Why? Because he doesn't impact the game in a way that dominates a game. That's always been my issue with building around Rudy Gobert and giving him the super max. He can't take over. He simply cannot take over.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Favs is a serviceable backup... He is just in over his head with this scheme and matchup. Its not like this is the first time he's struggled to be Rudy when Rudy is off the floor... he was supposed to give us something rolling to the basket and he's been a zero there.

Putting Favs out with JC, and Bojan/Niang was never gonna be pretty.

When our defensive scheme is to funnel towards one player and that player is Favors we are ****ed.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

I believe that Utah's deficiencies on defense in this series aren't because Gobert is being "targetted" or is a "liability", as morons would have you believe. He's having more success than anybody else on the team when he's targetted.

We're struggling on defense because the Clippers can get Gobert away from the rim, thus exposing the dreadful defense of our other players.

People here think Favors sucks on defense because our defense is garbage when he's in. The reality is Favors is a decent defender surrounded by dreadful defenders. Gobert is such a God-tier defender that he can cover for everybody else's deficiencies. Favors cannot.

There is truth to this. We have no one who can stay in front of anyone on the perimeter. Not even Royce.

 

[MT Steve]

If we had switchable defenders and didn’t scheme everything to funnel to one player who then can get taken out of the paint and torched on isolation plays I bet our defensive rating would be a whole lot better.

Having switchable defenders would be nice, and there's certainly an argument to be made that Gobert's value should be questioned because teams can take him away from the paint and expose our other defenders.

That having been said, you need to stop parroting the narrative that the Clippers are targetting Gobert and making him a liability when he has been the best player on the team defending in isolation in this series.

Dragging Gobert out of the paint to iso on him is not producing good offense for them. That is inarguable, period. 0.99 points scored per possession is horrible.

They get Gobert out of the paint so that our other woeful perimeter defenders no longer have their safety net. THAT is how we are getting torched.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Over the last three games of this series, the Clippers are shooting 40% from three and 71.4% in the restricted area when Rudy Gobert has been ON the floor. Clippers have a 121.7 Offensive Rating in that time.

But yes... @MT Steve and @Saint Cy of JFC please go on.

We are 0-3 in this time frame as well. Lue figured out our defense and it sucks but it’s the truth.

 

[MT Steve]

Over the last three games of this series, the Clippers are shooting 40% from three and 71.4% in the restricted area when Rudy Gobert has been ON the floor. Clippers have a 121.7 Offensive Rating in that time.

But yes... @MT Steve and @Saint Cy of JFC please go on.

We are 0-3 in this time frame as well. Lue figured out our defense and it sucks but it’s the truth.

Nobody is arguing that our defense is perfectly fine with Gobert is on the court. I can't tell if you're being disingenuous because you care more about winning the argument than being right, or if you're truthfully that clueless. Either way, this is getting silly.

Our defensive rating in the last 3 games with Gobert on the court is 121.7 (really bad) and STILL over 20 points per 100 possessions better than when he's off the court.

As I already said, we're barely hanging on defensively when he's in, and completely fall off the cliff when he's out.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Nobody is arguing that our defense is perfectly fine with Gobert is on the court. I can't tell if you're being disingenuous because you care more about winning the argument than being right, or if you're truthfully that clueless. Either way, this is getting silly.

Our defensive rating in the last 3 games with Gobert on the court is 121.7 (really bad) and STILL over 20 points per 100 possessions better than when he's off the court.

As I already said, we're barely hanging on defensively when he's in, and completely fall off the cliff when he's out.

This is the equivalent of Mitchell not showing up on offense and averaging like 15 PPG but at least the offense is better with him in there. Would Mitchell not be getting a lions share of the blame?

 

[Elizah Huge]

When you demand a 5-year 205M contract you are expected to show up in the playoffs. Your entire game is built around being the man on defense and that’s how you got paid. When our defensive rating is 121.7 with you on the court you are going to get blamed.

 

[Sean]

The Jazz have gone through very hot and very cold stretches throughout this series. It has still averaged out to great offense. Not good - great. As in on par with Brooklyn's historically great offense in the regular season.

If there's lower variance and the stretches are more stable (less very hot and less very cold), and the offensive rating is still elite, the end result is the exact same and we still lose.

In the last three games, Utah's offensive strengths have been neutralized and it is a factor in why they're losing these games. You can't win when your offense is going cold for a full half of basketball and that's what we've seen these three games - not just inconsistencies throughout the game but ice-cold shooting for long periods of time.

Defensively, the Jazz are doing a poor job as well. But there have been such poor shot selection in these games that they can't seem to ever recover.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

When our defensive scheme is to funnel towards one player and that player is Favors we are ****ed.

Which is why I though we needed some scheme variance or just live with getting deep dicked while Rudy sits but get a stretch 5 option that opens up the offense even more... just try and outscore them when Rudy is off the floor.

 

[MT Steve]

This is the equivalent of Mitchell not showing up on offense and averaging like 15 PPG but at least the offense is better with him in there. Would Mitchell not be getting a lions share of the blame?

It's not the equivalent of that, because Gobert isn't the reason we're getting torched.

When you demand a 5-year 205M contract you are expected to show up in the playoffs. Your entire game is built around being the man on defense and that’s how you got paid. When our defensive rating is 121.7 with you on the court you are going to get blamed.

If Gobert is getting stretched out to the perimeter and is still the best defender on the team when targetted, but we're getting torched because nobody else can keep their man in front of them and Gobert can no longer be the safety net for them because he has to defend the perimeter... how is that Gobert's fault?

I agree with the premise that Gobert + a bunch of bad defenders who rely on him as a safety net isn't a winning recipe in the playoffs. What I don't agree with is the notion that Gobert himself is getting targetted and torched, and that he's a liability. In the possessions that he manages to get involved in defensively, we're having the most success. He's not killing us on offense - our offensive rating is Brooklyn Nets levels of good.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Which is why I though we needed some scheme variance or just live with getting deep dicked while Rudy sits but get a stretch 5 option that opens up the offense even more... just try and outscore them when Rudy is off the floor.

That makes too much sense. Zero chance of that happening.

 

[Jazzmix]

Rudy is great. But the problem is he is like 75 percent of our defense. It's like putting Dame on a team with defensive specialists who cant shoot like Shaq Harrison etc and judge him when he basically doesn't have any spacing at all and has to score 40 every game. Of course it would be easier to scheme against him than, double team him etc. However good one guy is you can always scheme against him.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Last thing I have to say here for now. Rudy can’t and never will win us a playoff game by himself. Mitchell can and has. We get swept 4-0 if he even just scores 25-30 points in Game’s 1 and 2. Think about that. Rudy’s contract is going to look so so so bad in 2-3 years.