Coronavirus

[Deleted member 365]

Your position would spread those consequences to those who did not make the decision.


"I did not think you would be so callous and careless." I'm not sure why you think that is opaque.

How would those needing to be hospitalized spread the infection further?

I don’t understand why it’s callous and careless either. Couldn’t one make the argument that asking vaccinated people to put off treatments and/or risk their own lives by restricting healthcare so irresponsible unvaccinated people can be treated to be callous and careless? I just don’t know how we can ask vaccinated folks to put off their health care needs for those who most likely could’ve avoided hospitalization altogether had they been vaccinated? If health care must be measured out due to the system being under so much stress, I have no problem ethically by diverting more health care to those responsible than letting the unvaccinated ruin the entire system.

I still don’t understand why you found that humorous. You thought me wanting the vaccinated to not have their health care treatments limited or put off to be excessively callous and careless to the point of me attempting to be funny? I guess I’m not finding the punchline. It’s okay to admit that you were merely trying to get a dig in. Because that’s kind of what it appears to me you were trying to do rather than engage in a fair and honest debate.

 

[One Brow]

How would those needing to be hospitalized spread the infection further?

Got it. You can't see how unhospitalized, desperately sick people with an infectious disease could possibly pass on their communicable disease to others.

I don’t understand why it’s callous and careless either.

I accept your inability here.

Please feel free to research how medical ethics is practiced in urgent care situations, particularly with regard to conditions that can be attributed to behavioral choices. I'm not going to write a 500-word summary.

I still don’t understand why you found that humorous.

I didn't. I thought it was a humorless attempt at humor.

Because that’s kind of what it appears to me you were trying to do rather than engage in a fair and honest debate.

I am not aware there is any debate to had here.

 

[JazzyFresh]

"were going to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated"

So Biden admits the vaccination is pointless.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

genuine question the young healthy people your wife refers to getting very ill with Covid - is being overweight included in the health status ?

I asked the same question, the patient is not overweight, completely healthy other than getting hit really hard by Covid.

 

[JazzyFresh]

I mean. I have to get a vaccine to protect the vaccinated?

 

[Deleted member 365]

Got it. You can't see how unhospitalized, desperately sick people with an infectious disease could possibly pass on their communicable disease to others.


I accept your inability here.

Please feel free to research how medical ethics is practiced in urgent care situations, particularly with regard to conditions that can be attributed to behavioral choices. I'm not going to write a 500-word summary.


I didn't. I thought it was a humorless attempt at humor.


I am not aware there is any debate to had here.

I don’t believe those sick enough to desire hospitalization will spread the virus more than others. In fact, aren’t the most contagious times for covid in the early stages of the infection? Those who desire hospitalization are usually one week into infection and I don’t think they’re much of a threat to go to concerts or sing at a church. If they’re turned down a hospital bed in favor of someone who was Responsible, then they’ll probably return home, ramp up the hydroxy and dewormer and rest.

I think your accusation of this being a joke was a cheap shot. I think you knew it wasn’t a joke. I don’t have a history of being callous or joking in such a manner. It’s okay to admit it was a cheap shot.

I’m not sure if there is a debate to have. We just may have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe those responsibly vaccinated should see their health care curbed in favor of the irresponsible. It’s time for the rest of society to move on. Covid anti vaxxers have made their choice. If anything, this can act as an incentive to get vaccinated because now they know that literally their ability to get health care will be dependent on their vaccination status.

again, those vaccinated shouldn’t see their health care diminished because unvaccinated covid patients have overrun the system.

this isn’t just. This is pathetic:

At the nearby main hospital building in the city of about 50,000, some emergency room patients receive care in a converted lobby and others get it in hallways. Urgent surgeries have been put on hold and some patients in critical condition are facing long waits for intensive care beds.

Idaho patients in hospital halls amid COVID rationed care

Idaho’s move to crisis standards of care this week is allowing some hospitals to ration health care amid an onslaught of coronavirus patients and officials are warning the the rationing could spread to hospitals statewide.

apnews.com

 

[Deleted member 365]

I don’t know if parents in Utah recognize the dire situation in Utah schools yet. It’s bad. The quality of education is sliding due to covid. At any given time we’re seeing 5-10 teachers out at any school and most of the substitute requests are going unfilled. That means a lot of worthless class periods, untaught lessons, and wasted days. I was talking to a former colleague of mine in Alpine School District yesterday. He told me that they’re seeing 100+ sub requests are going unfilled each day. First, the normal amount of requests is usually a fraction of that. Second, rarely at this point on the year to requests go unfilled.

We haven’t even finished the first term and we’re seeing historic levels of teachers missing and sub requests going unfilled. Far worse than last year.

I think it’s definitely worth monitoring because we normally don’t see high levels of absence from teachers until late fall and winter. I’m also hearing from former colleagues that students are out sick too. Your typical class in high school is seeing 10-20 percent of its student population out for 10+ days. They’re not getting tested but they’re still getting sick. Which is understandable with the stigma against testing in this state.

If covid continues to spread then I see another wasted school year despite being “in person” all year long. It’s hard for teachers to teach when they’re out. And it’s hard for students to learn when they’re not in class. This is a real issue that sadly seems ignored by local politicians and school boards who are afraid of the loud anti mask minority.

 

[Red]

Really hoping they did this right. First was a masterpiece, second was passable, third was godawful.

Looking forward to finding out.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Really hoping they did this right. First was a masterpiece, second was passable, third was godawful.

Like the 4th Indiana Jones, I pretend the 3rd Matrix just never happened.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

The teacher was a woman, and she removed her mask to read to the class.

Okay, she removed her mask to read to the kids. She was in the class while infected for 3 full days. I have a hard time believing the masks saved them all for 2 days only to be foiled by 15 minutes of reading. I think it is much more likely the teacher radiated pathogens into the classroom for 3 days.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Okay, she removed her mask to read to the kids. She was in the class while infected for 3 full days. I have a hard time believing the masks saved them all for 2 days only to be foiled by 15 minutes of reading. I think it is much more likely the teacher radiated pathogens into the classroom for 3 days.

https://mobile.twitter.com/richdavisphd

What does a mask do? Blocks respiratory droplets coming from your mouth and throat. Two simple demos: First, I sneezed, sang, talked & coughed toward an agar culture plate with or without a mask. Bacteria colonies show where droplets landed. A mask blocks virtually all of them.

Keep in mind virus droplets would travel farther and longer, but you get the idea.

 

[Red]

Okay, she removed her mask to read to the kids. She was in the class while infected for 3 full days. I have a hard time believing the masks saved them all for 2 days only to be foiled by 15 minutes of reading. I think it is much more likely the teacher radiated pathogens into the classroom for 3 days.

Since you said the teacher was male, which I knew was incorrect, I just decided to go back and look at news of the incident at the time. And the CNN article is what I found.

I can’t prove removing her mask and reading was the period in which she spread it, nor can I prove it happened while she and her students were masked. Seems to me there would be a better chance of spread happening while she was unmasked, but I won’t belabor that point, I cannot pinpoint when it happened, and neither can you.

What you believe is fine with me, I don’t care. But you said she was a man, and was masked all the time, or nearly all the time. And the latter is probably true, since there was a mandate. I don’t know if she spent 15 seconds reading without a mask, or 15 minutes(Did it say 15 minutes, I’ll look again, but I’m not trying to prove the exact moment anyway). Just found an article that allowed me to refresh my memory. You can make anything you want over the incident as described, and you can weigh the most likely moment or moments in which the spread occurred. I’m not trying to prove when it happened, I cannot possibly know the moment, or moments when spread occurred.