I think we need to shake up the roster...

[Isaiah 1:13]

For the record Paschall is shooting .258 from three this season, Niang is shooting .390. Both in new situations obviously, both shooting a lower % than last year. Paschall's best 3pt % was last season at .333.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Paschall doesn't stretch the floor like Niang. But Paschall gives you a very different presence than Bogdonavic. We need that presence to help on both ends of the floor and it obviously hasn't yet.

Whereas Niang was the dollar store discount Bogdonavic that replicated his strechflooriness and typically toro defense as much as anyone in the league. When Bogie sat, Niang came on and did his best Bogie impression with less precision.

Arguably we miss that but I think it has a lot to do with the ball and a lot to do with expecting to win vs. bringing the effort. We typically play our ball in the 4th quarter after jackpotting around for 3 quarters. Against teams that play 4 quarters that has not been sufficient.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is what he looks like...

Sexy AF... I am a big Gay guy... always have been.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The bench lineup with everyone there has been fine, but still not as good as last year with Niang. We obviously don't have Gay yet, but I don't think we can expect that lineup to be as good as it was last year during the RS. Niang really was a perfect fit there and even if we expect Gay to be better in the playoffs it's hard to replicate that succes. The strange thing about that lineup is that it's had an abnormally high turnover rate. It's not really JC bringing it down. When I looked at it a week or so ago, it was mostly Rudy. We've also fallen apart whenever someone has been out. It's not like last year when Oni stepped in and things went amazing.

The starters just haven't been able to defend. I think that is being skewed by being completely whooped by MIA twice...I'm sure it will get back to normal when we play some bad teams. But it's important to remember that the Jazz are still #2 in offense despite the shooting issues. The Jazz shooting is way down, but shooting and offense is down all around the league. It's very much a defensive issue right now.

Its been fine but it was really effing dominant last year. That's a big downgrade... at least thus far. The turnover thing is weird. I think you are right its likely Rudy a bit but it also might be JC/Ingles. JC's turnovers are the same year over year but maybe more come in that lineup. IDK... its not been as good.

 

[infection]

So one point I want to make on Niang regarding spacing. Niang shot a high percentage on threes and on a high volume. But most of his shots were wide open. Per NBA.com tracking data, here's what his shots looked like last year:

Next defender 0-2 feet away (very tight): 0/0. A total of 0% of his threes.
Next defender 2-4 feet away (tight): 1/7. 14.3%. A total of 3% of his threes.
Next defender 4-6 feet away (open): 30/86. 34.9%. A total of 38.6% of his threes.
Next defender 6+ feet away (wide open): 60/130. 46.2%. A total of 58.3% of his threes.

97% of his threes were either open or wide open. Niang is a capable and willing shooter when open. But I think the discussion is that he's a very effective release valve to punish the defense rather than an option that's spreading the defense.

The question with Rudy Gay, is will his reputation and presence spread the floor more than Niang while being much less of a release valve (because he won't be as open as Niang). By comparison, Gay's open/wide open was 87% of his threes.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Paschall doesn't stretch the floor like Niang. But Paschall gives you a very different presence than Bogdonavic. We need that presence to help on both ends of the floor and it obviously hasn't yet.

Whereas Niang was the dollar store discount Bogdonavic that replicated his strechflooriness and typically toro defense as much as anyone in the league. When Bogie sat, Niang came on and did his best Bogie impression with less precision.

Arguably we miss that but I think it has a lot to do with the ball and a lot to do with expecting to win vs. bringing the effort. We typically play our ball in the 4th quarter after jackpotting around for 3 quarters. Against teams that play 4 quarters that has not been sufficient.

Niang was very good last year moving his feet and staying in front. My only issue is that he really doesn't bother anyone defensively... low steals, deflections. Its a problem made worse by the fact we don't have those type of disruptors on the floor.

My only issues with Niang were that his defense in the playoffs was bad and his shot completely disappeared when stakes were the highest. Indicator of more or just an outlier? IDK. I wonder what life would be like if we had kept him, signed Gay, and brought on Paschall... while moving Bogey for something... I'm not sure its any better than what we have.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

For the record Paschall is shooting .258 from three this season, Niang is shooting .390. Both in new situations obviously, both shooting a lower % than last year. Paschall's best 3pt % was last season at .333.

I'm not super worried or hopeful on Paschall's shooting. I only worry when a guy can be completely ignored. If you ignore Paschall he crashes the glass and gets some loose balls... He also is able to dribble into a drive. In the playoffs as he is scouted more teams won't close out to him like they do at times now... so it might be more of an issue. I hope he is used in 5 out lineups in the playoffs as a roll man because that has been pretty good based on my observations thus far.

 

[KqWIN]

So one point I want to make on Niang regarding spacing. Niang shot a high percentage on threes and on a high volume. But most of his shots were wide open. Per NBA.com tracking data, here's what his shots looked like last year:

Next defender 0-2 feet away (very tight): 0/0. A total of 0% of his threes.
Next defender 2-4 feet away (tight): 1/7. 14.3%. A total of 3% of his threes.
Next defender 4-6 feet away (open): 30/86. 34.9%. A total of 38.6% of his threes.
Next defender 6+ feet away (wide open): 60/130. 46.2%. A total of 58.3% of his threes.

97% of his threes were either open or wide open. Niang is a capable and willing shooter when open. But I think the discussion is that he's a very effective release valve to punish the defense rather than an option that's spreading the defense.

The question with Rudy Gay, is will his reputation and presence spread the floor more than Niang while being much less of a release valve (because he won't be as open as Niang). By comparison, Gay's open/wide open was 87% of his threes.

It's a good thought, but I think the proportion of shots that aren't open/wide open has more to with the ability to shoot off the dribble/on the move than it is a player's actual gravity. We know Niang does not shoot off of screens or off the dribble, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have gravity. Curry had the most open+wide open 3 attempts per game last season and it's not because he wasn't spreading the defense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's a good thought, but I think the proportion of shots that aren't open/wide open has more to with the ability to shoot off the dribble/on the move than it is a player's actual gravity. We know Niang does not shoot off of screens or off the dribble, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have gravity. Curry had the most open+wide open 3 attempts per game last season and it's not because he wasn't spreading the defense.

I think it has to do with where they are positioned on the court as well. Niang did well above the break so there is just more space to be had. Paschall seems like primarily a corner three guy and when he has taken them above the break they are wide open... haven't looked at the numbers... just based on observations so could be completely wrong.

He's also a smart player so may have known where to be to get open.

 

[KqWIN]

I think it has to do with where they are positioned on the court as well. Niang did well above the break so there is just more space to be had. Paschall seems like primarily a corner three guy and when he has taken them above the break they are wide open... haven't looked at the numbers... just based on observations so could be completely wrong.

He's also a smart player so may have known where to be to get open.

Also the quick trigger. Niang had great form to shoot quickly in C&S situations....he barely jumped and fired away without hesitation. Paschall has a long windup and elevates on his 3's as if he's trying to get a tough bucket in the paint.

To my eye, Quin has Paschall playing an Oni role where he's in the corner and doesn't do much else. I think that's fine and lets him crash the boards...but I do wonder if he'd more successful playing at the top. I don't trust his ability to shoot it, but he can make some plays out of the short role and attack off the dribble. I think this is especially the case when teams are switching. He can put in work against smaller guys. He might be the second best scorer against switches behind Don. If he has a smaller guy, that guy is getting put under the basket.

We were masking some of Royce's shooting woes by putting him at the top where he could short roll and drive a bit. I'd like to see Paschall get that chance too.

 

[homeytennis]

Also the quick trigger. Niang had great form to shoot quickly in C&S situations....he barely jumped and fired away without hesitation. Paschall has a long windup and elevates on his 3's as if he's trying to get a tough bucket in the paint.

To my eye, Quin has Paschall playing an Oni role where he's in the corner and doesn't do much else. I think that's fine and lets him crash the boards...but I do wonder if he'd more successful playing at the top. I don't trust his ability to shoot it, but he can make some plays out of the short role and attack off the dribble. I think this is especially the case when teams are switching. He can put in work against smaller guys. He might be the second best scorer against switches behind Don. If he has a smaller guy, that guy is getting put under the basket.

We were masking some of Royce's shooting woes by putting him at the top where he could short roll and drive a bit. I'd like to see Paschall get that chance too.

Speaking of Oni, is his picture on the back of a milk carton? Not too many sightings of him in these parts.

 

[rjfan]

I'm seeing this discussions and i actually agree with some of them, but then, i guess we should look at better ways to fit guys toghether that they compose lineups that make sense to everyone's strenghts, so that then the collective take the best out of them to make the team better than (or at least as good) the sums of it's parts.

Donovan got better as a playmaker, but his less dependant of operating in pick and roll - if anything he may be a guy that waving to the big coming for screens to deny it as much if not more than Conley and Ingles combined, if not Clarkson too. He can play in a way where we not only play more physical on defense (where his more active efforts been nice, and maybe even leading to better performances there, but he's been going through some foul troubles because of that, so he also needs to learn to not overdo things, also to stop making eurofouls, as he of all players can't risk foul trouble), but also faster on offense, which fits Paschall and Clarkson games much more than Ingles. But instead we sub Ingles first, have him not being able to start sets and losing time on the clock because his limitations off the dribble make him screen dependant, and we combine that with Whiteside "less than great" screening hability, while keeping Paschall to space for Gobert (and doing so parked on the corner), also making us less able to put teams on rotation, and playing to Clarkson's weakness as of setting a hero ball turnover prone enviroment, instead of one that works well around him, and that he steps in as a wildcard, not a regular saviour. Also the worst our offense be, the worst our defense gets, as we suuuuuuck on transition defense.