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Building around Donovan or Gobert

Jingled said:
I don't think the all-star game is going to go the way Ryan Smith think's it is...all the talk during all-star weekend is still going to be all about the drama between Rudy and Don and whether or not Don really wants to be here, how long before he asks for a trade, etc. It's not going to accomplish whatever Ryan think's it is, in fact it's likely to completely backfire.
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There are several ways it could backfire spectacularly that are much more likely than the scenario where things are all good here and Donovan is the mayor of AS weekend. What if they don't make the AS game. What if he asks out right before the trade deadline and you trade him right before the AS game. What if they make the AS game but the media turn it all into a "rumors" weekend where Donovan gives non-committal answers...

What if no one cares or remembers any of this in a year or two and you made decisions based on things that didn't matter one damn bit.
 
KqWIN said:
<...>I still think the off court stuff is overblown. I do think they dislike each other and there’s truth to the idea that they cannot play together anymore. But one thing that’s been consistent in their relationship is that it’s good when their winning and terrible when their losing. The partnership fell apart when their belief in winning together disappeared. The personal stuff would have been brushed aside if they could just win. <...>
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You're right.
And it screams they're not the ones.
 
outerspacefan said:
You're right.
And it screams they're not the ones.
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Don and Gobert are definitely not the problem. We could have, maybe should have, made the finals with them. Just complete arrogance from the FO and Quin. The weaknesses could not be more obvious, but they put more effort into buying some golf trips for Ryan instead. If they were just average, and not awful, they should have made the finals one of the last 3 years.

I guess I should say that Don and Gobert are talented enough for us to win with them, but both their mental is very weak.
 
Jingled said:
I still think they're both going to be here next year. Ryan Smith's number one priority right now seems to be the all-star game, which I think is incredibly stupid. They're going to try to re-tool around them by trading two or three of Conley, Bogey, Royce and Clarkson. This article from Jake Fischer seems to confirm my suspicions.







View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10035491-nba-offseason-buzz-all-eyes-on-utah-jazz-stars-knicks-lakers-pelicans-rumors
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That might just work depending on what we get for conley, bogey, royce or clarkson.
Conley rarely a better point guard than our opponents pg. royce sucks. Trade those two and maybe we get much better.


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Tony Jones on Bill Riley's show this morning basically said the same thing Jake Fischer said in his article. He said the Jazz definitely aren't trading Donovan and are leaning towards not trading Rudy either. Instead they're going to re-tool the roster around Rudy and Don and they should look to surround them with as many wings as possible. He also said if the front office isn't successful in improving the roster this offseason then a complete teardown is likely coming next offseason.
 
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Jingled said:
Tony Jones on Bill Riley's show this morning basically said the same thing Jake Fischer said in his article. He said the Jazz definitely aren't trading Donovan and are leaning towards not trading Rudy either. Instead they're going to re-tool the roster around Rudy and Don and they should look to surround them with as many wings as possible.
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Makes more sense than the direction they previously were headed. The question is how do you get those wings? I feel like we tried to do that at the deadline and were likely rebuffed. Our cap flexibility is poop... we have no picks to move... I think Mike was off the table at the deadline and is now likely on the table. We shall see.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Makes more sense than the direction they previously were headed. The question is how do you get those wings? I feel like we tried to do that at the deadline and were likely rebuffed. Our cap flexibility is poop... we have no picks to move... I think Mike was off the table at the deadline and is now likely on the table. We shall see.
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I think they're completely willing to trade Conley, Bogey and Royce now, whereas they were a lot more reluctant at the deadline.
 
Here are the list of guards/wings that have a more positive defensive RAPTOR and more positive overall RAPTOR than Royce:

Alec Burks, Jared Vanderbuilt, Javonte Green, Jayson Tatum, Cam Johnson, Garrison Matthews, Pat Bev, OPJ, Giannis, PJ Tucker, RoCo, Caleb Martin, Dillon Brooks, Wes Matthews, Matisse Thybull, Alex Caruso, GPII, Derrick White, Marcus Smart, De'Anthony Melton, Austin Reaves, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, JJJ, Bobby Portis.

Who would we be interested in that could be available for what we have to offer?
 
The thing that bothers me with Don is that he came into the 2017 draft as one of the better perimeter defenders in the draft because of his wingspan. It's a purely mental thing for him that he's gotta do better at.

I'm not sure how surrounding Don and Rudy with more wings is going to do it.
 
Avery said:
The thing that bothers me with Don is that he came into the 2017 draft as one of the better perimeter defenders in the draft because of his wingspan. It's a purely mental thing for him that he's gotta do better at.

I'm not sure how surrounding Don and Rudy with more wings is going to do it.
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Better to 1) provide Rudy with basic backup on switches, and 2) bury Donovan's totally non-existent defense even more.

Frankly Rudy and DM with 3 switchy wings who can hit a 3 at a reasonable clip would be devastating.

Problem is we have to have 6 wings like that, for swapping out, because as soon as you pair Mitchell with a non-defensive small guard (Conley, for example) it becomes a parade to the rim, and then the entire system breaks down.
 
Avery said:
The thing that bothers me with Don is that he came into the 2017 draft as one of the better perimeter defenders in the draft because of his wingspan. It's a purely mental thing for him that he's gotta do better at.

I'm not sure how surrounding Don and Rudy with more wings is going to do it.
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Yup, that's why I roll my eyes at the "too small backcourt" thing. Yeah, they are right that having a small backcourt isnt ideal, but the size of the our backcourt is rarely what's hurting us.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
There are several ways it could backfire spectacularly that are much more likely than the scenario where things are all good here and Donovan is the mayor of AS weekend. What if they don't make the AS game. What if he asks out right before the trade deadline and you trade him right before the AS game. What if they make the AS game but the media turn it all into a "rumors" weekend where Donovan gives non-committal answers...

What if no one cares or remembers any of this in a year or two and you made decisions based on things that didn't matter one damn bit.
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I agree with both you and Jingled on this one. And to answer your question, if it indeed backfires spectacularly, the Jazz ownership/management 2DC02E9E-43AF-41AA-9D09-967554329234.jpegare going to look like this guy.
 
KqWIN said:
Don and Gobert are definitely not the problem. We could have, maybe should have, made the finals with them. Just complete arrogance from the FO and Quin. The weaknesses could not be more obvious, but they put more effort into buying some golf trips for Ryan instead. If they were just average, and not awful, they should have made the finals one of the last 3 years.

I guess I should say that Don and Gobert are talented enough for us to win with them, but both their mental is very weak.
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Sure talent is there, and it's arguably a good amount of oit. As an ideal situation, I really do want to win with them.
But I'd not go as far as to say they're not part of the problem. They've got issues, some of them quite big ones.

Anyway, brass missed the shots around. Be them obvious errs (Udoka... Jared?) or less ovious ones (Mike, Gay... yes I know some fellow posters didn't like the moves from the start...) or just the wrong thing to do (trade Joe?, putting an exogenous legend part owner to breath over the neck of your coaching staff?)... fact is Quin ended up trying to manage lots of flaws... lol we mostly ended up asking loudly for Danuel or Juancho, some around even remembered what a nice D boost would Trent be if available.... I like these guys, but that should probaby tell us something....

Mistakes piled up, Don and Rudy ended up sharing the faith of some of their teammates: carrying just too much for themselves, a step too much away from their own selves.

The train for this mix hass passed away, the longer they wait the lower they'll sell.

Now, tell me Rudy gets a couple own O shots and Jazz will let Don be the scorer he is and not a PG... then I can think all it over and come with a different set of principles! ;)
 
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homeytennis said:
If you are a NBA Coach or GM would you want Royce?
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Yes, his contract isn’t that bad and he’d be a solid role player off of the bench.

The problems come from playing him 35+ minutes a night and having him guard the opposing teams best player.

That’s on the coach for putting him in those terrible situations and it’s easy to blame Royce because he is terrible at defending small guards and against screens and is limited offensively but it’s on the coach more than anything for putting him in that situation.
 
Build around Mitchell opens you up to bigger possibilities to attract talent from around the league. Building around Gobert .... We will still be an average team and still hated. Everyone loves to hate Gobert
 
UtahJazz32 said:
Build around Mitchell opens you up to bigger possibilities to attract talent from around the league. Building around Gobert .... We will still be an average team and still hated. Everyone loves to hate Gobert
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Stop being so logical.

It's cool when NBA stars and personalities constantly mock Rudy. It's great for our street cred. Makes Rudy work that much harder in the offseason to get to that one spot on the floor where he needs the ball perfectly delivered. So when he doesn't get it, it's everybody else's fault.


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