Building around Donovan or Gobert

[Handlogten's Heros]

We won't be able to "build" around Donovan. He won't be here long enough... so its more a remodel to get the house ready for a sale. It sounds super fun to sit through a year of construction to hopefully get the amount of money back we spend in the remodel.

I also don't think Rudy is good enough for long enough to build around. He has a couple years more at his peak if healthy and I think the end could be more like a cliff than a slow decline.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We won't be able to "build" around Donovan. He won't be here long enough... so its more a remodel to get the house ready for a sale. It sounds super fun to sit through a year of construction to hopefully get the amount of money back we spend in the remodel.

I also don't think Rudy is good enough for long enough to build around. He has a couple years more at his peak if healthy and I think the end could be more like a cliff than a slow decline.

One big positive about Gobert vs Mitchell tho is that Gobert will be cheaper on his next deal. I dont think Gobert is just going to fall off. I think he will decline, and then his next contract he will be in the 15-20 range (at least equivalent to what that is now in regards to total cap). I also have hopes he will eventually bust out a Brooks Lopez-esque career redefining 3pt shot at some point.

The thing with Mitchell is that he is going to put up big stats, so he's going to get a max or near max on his next deal as well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We were a team that was supposed to be two young stars and one vet star in Conley. Conley kinda slowed down and didn't quite live up to that (though he did play well). We just needed that third star or we needed Donovan to become a superstar. Donovan's best chance to do that was to be a two way player... maybe not quite like Kawhi but maybe on the level of Tatum on defense... or the guard version of that. He has not become anything near that either because he doesn't have it in him or he doesn't want to put in enough effort... I don't think some magic switch flips now... he's had lots of time and opportunity.

This team has just run its course. If Joe, Mike, and Bogey were all going to be the 2020 versions of themselves for us next year then run it back and mend the fences... or you would be able to move some of them to get some difference makers... or maybe I could even see trading Rudy or Donovan to make different version of the contending team. Joe is done here... Mike is very likely to decline (his age is the age where small guards fall off a cliff and he's showing signs of being cooked). Bogey likely is close to what he has been. Its just over... we can fight it for a year and try around Donovan but just know it is almost certainly going to fail.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

One big positive about Gobert vs Mitchell tho is that Gobert will be cheaper on his next deal. I dont think Gobert is just going to fall off. I think he will decline, and then his next contract he will be in the 15-20 range (at least equivalent to what that is now in regards to total cap). I also have hopes he will eventually bust out a Brooks Lopez-esque career redefining 3pt shot at some point.

The thing with Mitchell is that he is going to put up big stats, so he's going to get a max or near max on his next deal as well.

I think you are overly optimistic on Rudy. I'm trying to think of comps... not sure old Mutombo could play in today's NBA. DeAndre Jordan and Roy Hibbert didn't age well but neither moved as well as Rudy or were ever committed to playing half as hard as Rudy does.

I'd be fine keeping and paying Donovan even... its the fact that he's likely on his way out in the next 18 months and doing short term moves to appease a player has almost always ended in disaster. Like say he signed an extension or exercised his player option... you might be able to nail a pick or two or get some young guys in the Rudy trade that pop and you have something to build. If we take a step back next year can anyone say with a straight face that Donovan will be happy and patient?

 

[Jingled]

I still think they're both going to be here next year. Ryan Smith's number one priority right now seems to be the all-star game, which I think is incredibly stupid. They're going to try to re-tool around them by trading two or three of Conley, Bogey, Royce and Clarkson. This article from Jake Fischer seems to confirm my suspicions.

Much of the leaguewide conversation regarding the potential split of three-time Defensive Player of the Year Rudy Gobert and three-time All-Star Donovan Mitchell seems to have been generated by NBA actors outside of the Jazz franchise.

The 2023 NBA All-Star Game will be in Salt Lake City, a detail that multiple league sources connected to the Jazz have painted as a critical element of the franchise's future plans. It's of great importance to Jazz governor Ryan Smith that Utah has multiple players in that midseason classic, sources said, similar to how the Cavaliers were represented by both Darius Garland and Jarrett Allen during the 2022 affair in Cleveland. It's also clear that Smith is willing to financially support a contender, and Utah leadership has no designs of entering any sort of rebuild.

Utah's steadfast commitment to Mitchell has naturally led rival executives to paint Gobert as the more likely trade candidate should the Jazz explore breaking up the duo. Dallas, Atlanta and Toronto are the potential Gobert destinations that have been discussed most among league personnel. But while Jazz figures have clearly recognized their roster's need for defensive improvements, moving on from Gobert would seem directly counterintuitive to fixing those shortcomings.

League personnel speak far more certainly of the Jazz looking to explore moving complementary pieces such as wings Bojan Bogdanovic and Royce O'Neale. That could introduce All-Star point guard Mike Conley into an interesting point guard market that seems to be developing this summer.

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10035491-nba-offseason-buzz-all-eyes-on-utah-jazz-stars-knicks-lakers-pelicans-rumors

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I still think they're both going to be here next year. Ryan Smith's number one priority right now seems to be the all-star game, which I think is incredibly stupid. They're going to try to re-tool around them by trading two or three of Conley, Bogey, Royce and Clarkson. This article from Jake Fischer seems to confirm my suspicions.






View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10035491-nba-offseason-buzz-all-eyes-on-utah-jazz-stars-knicks-lakers-pelicans-rumors

The AS is so important... we can trade the "face of the franchise" after that. That won't look bad at all.

The all-star game shouldn't even be a thought... or ever mentioned... and it is mentioned at every damned turn.

 

[LoPo]

We won't be able to "build" around Donovan. He won't be here long enough...

You don't know that, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Jingled]

The AS is so important... we can trade the "face of the franchise" after that. That won't look bad at all.

The all-star game shouldn't even be a thought... or ever mentioned... and it is mentioned at every damned turn.

I don't think the all-star game is going to go the way Ryan Smith think's it is...all the talk during all-star weekend is still going to be all about the drama between Rudy and Don and whether or not Don really wants to be here, how long before he asks for a trade, etc. It's not going to accomplish whatever Ryan think's it is, in fact it's likely to completely backfire.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think the all-star game is going to go the way Ryan Smith think's it is...all the talk during all-star weekend is still going to be all about the drama between Rudy and Don and whether or not Don really wants to be here, how long before he asks for a trade, etc. It's not going to accomplish whatever Ryan think's it is, in fact it's likely to completely backfire.

There are several ways it could backfire spectacularly that are much more likely than the scenario where things are all good here and Donovan is the mayor of AS weekend. What if they don't make the AS game. What if he asks out right before the trade deadline and you trade him right before the AS game. What if they make the AS game but the media turn it all into a "rumors" weekend where Donovan gives non-committal answers...

What if no one cares or remembers any of this in a year or two and you made decisions based on things that didn't matter one damn bit.

 

[outerspacefan]

<...>I still think the off court stuff is overblown. I do think they dislike each other and there’s truth to the idea that they cannot play together anymore. But one thing that’s been consistent in their relationship is that it’s good when their winning and terrible when their losing. The partnership fell apart when their belief in winning together disappeared. The personal stuff would have been brushed aside if they could just win. <...>

You're right.
And it screams they're not the ones.

 

[KqWIN]

You're right.
And it screams they're not the ones.

Don and Gobert are definitely not the problem. We could have, maybe should have, made the finals with them. Just complete arrogance from the FO and Quin. The weaknesses could not be more obvious, but they put more effort into buying some golf trips for Ryan instead. If they were just average, and not awful, they should have made the finals one of the last 3 years.

I guess I should say that Don and Gobert are talented enough for us to win with them, but both their mental is very weak.

 

[fishonjazz]

I still think they're both going to be here next year. Ryan Smith's number one priority right now seems to be the all-star game, which I think is incredibly stupid. They're going to try to re-tool around them by trading two or three of Conley, Bogey, Royce and Clarkson. This article from Jake Fischer seems to confirm my suspicions.






View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10035491-nba-offseason-buzz-all-eyes-on-utah-jazz-stars-knicks-lakers-pelicans-rumors

That might just work depending on what we get for conley, bogey, royce or clarkson.
Conley rarely a better point guard than our opponents pg. royce sucks. Trade those two and maybe we get much better.


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