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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

jom2003 said:
Royce, Bogey and Conley are just average/below average starters that are not even top 15 in their positions meaning DM can just randomly go to any team and there's more than 50% chance that he will find better help than what the Jazz put together right now.
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I mean if you take an all-star and remove him from one team... and add him to another team without that team having to give something up... then yeah you might have a 50% chance at him having more help. Like if Steph landed on our team he might have more help than the leftover Warriors are giving him.

A better exercise is to say... swap Donovan and Luka... which team is better? Which guy has more help?
 
LoPo said:
The NBA is won by teams with two way players who assist the "stars". We don't have a single good two way player. That's why we struggle so much when it matters most.

Royce, Bogey and Conley have value, but not at the amount of minutes in such key roles we expect of them.
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The NBA is won in a lot of ways. Having two-way stars who make role players better than they would be otherwise is more true than what you are pitching here. You can give Zach Lavine and Bradley Beal a bunch of Reggie Bullocks and they won't do as well as Jimmy Butler/PG13/Kawhi. Boston can have Al Horford and Robert Williams but they ain't **** without Brown and Tatum.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Royce is very much below average, yeah.

Bogey is very much above average. He's a near All-Star level player when it comes to offensive production.

Same with Conley, but more on a team scale and less individual.

Gobert is one of the best defensive players of all time and one of the best rim running centers at improving his team's ability to create open shots on offense.
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Royce is very much below average, yeah.

Bogey is very much above average. He's a near All-Star level player when it comes to offensive production.

Same with Conley, but more on a team scale and less individual.

Gobert is one of the best defensive players of all time and one of the best rim running centers at improving his team's ability to create open shots on offense.
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Above average offensively and below average defensively makes Bogey an average player for SF spot. KD, Lebron, Kawhi, PG, Butler, two Bridges, Tatum, Brown, Middleton, Ingram, Wiggins, Grant. Tell me how Bogey would start over any of them.

And Conley at this point of his career is VERY below average. I can name at least 16 or 17 PGs that will start over him, meaning he will be nothing more than a backup on over half of the teams in the league.
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean if you take an all-star and remove him from one team... and add him to another team without that team having to give something up... then yeah you might have a 50% chance at him having more help. Like if Steph landed on our team he might have more help than the leftover Warriors are giving him.

A better exercise is to say... swap Donovan and Luka... which team is better? Which guy has more help?
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Luka's team is better. When Luka was out, they had two starters who could create offense. If Don was out, we would be left with Clarkson. We saw this dynamic at play last postseason against a younger, inexperienced Memphis team. Conley actually had a pretty solid game with Don out, but it wasn't enough and we lost. Conley is actually worse this year than last.

Playoff offense and playoff defense are both important. One impacts the other. Not only is our defense weak, our offense doesn't make the opponent work. It's easy to defend then they have energy to torch our defense.


Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It is likely KCP and something else. They love Kuzma. I proposed Deni and KCP and some thought it was absurd. Depends on if you think Mike is just cooked or if he just had a bad series... also depends on what they think of Deni. If he is just his stats its not super impressive... I think he has a chance to be a great super glue guy... he's also working with Drew Hanlen this offseason. If it was KCP+Ish and a second or two I wouldn't be surprised. It does save us some money and Ryan loves saving money.
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It will be interesting to see how they assess their roster. I have to assume they brought Porzingis in with the hopes of restoring him to his Knicks self. If so, I don't know if Porzingis and Kuzma make sense together. Rui may be a better fit with Porzingis. They also have Bryant (UFA) and Gafford to consider and presumably are not coming back with all of them.

Personally I would love to take a try with Kuzma. I know he has flaws but I think he still has a lot of upside and would be a really nice fit on this roster. He could play next to Gobert and be a small-ball 5 as well.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He was much more a role player this year. Bogey is a role player too... Conley isn't a franchise pillar like Rudy and Donovan... is that your argument here.

I just think you are too sensitive to any middle ground here. If Donovan had a good series by his standards we win the Dallas series... if Mike had a good series by his standards we likely win the series... are you happy now or does Donovan need to not be mentioned at all?

Its just amazing that some talk about Donovan like he's a top 5-10 player but if someone else says he should perform like a top 5-10 player for us to realize our ultimate goal he is a hater/clown who can't see the real issues.
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I've already pointed out that Donovan has played out of his mind and it didn't lead to a series win. There is no sensitivity. I have said repeatedly that Don had a bad series. Not nearly as bad as Conley, but it wasn't good.

You keep saying that we win the series if Donovan had a good series. I think our team flaws are so bad that your point isn't true. Our system is flawed and our roster construction is poor.
 
LoPo said:
Luka's team is better. When Luka was out, they had two starters who could create offense. If Don was out, we would be left with Clarkson. We saw this dynamic at play last postseason against a younger, inexperienced Memphis team. Conley actually had a pretty solid game with Don out, but it wasn't enough and we lost. Conley is actually worse this year than last.

Playoff offense and playoff defense are both important. One impacts the other. Not only is our defense weak, our offense doesn't make the opponent work. It's easy to defend then they have energy to torch our defense.


Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
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Wow that one game that Utah barely lost because Rudy played 20 minutes due to foul trouble.
 
LoPo said:
I've already pointed out that Donovan has played out of his mind and it didn't lead to a series win. There is no sensitivity. I have said repeatedly that Don had a bad series. Not nearly as bad as Conley, but it wasn't good.

You keep saying that we win the series if Donovan had a good series. I think our team flaws are so bad that your point isn't true. Our system is flawed and our roster construction is poor.
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And I’ve already explained that just because I say if Donavan had a good series we’d have beat Dallas doesn’t mean it applies to all playoff series… so why mention the others where he played well and we lost.

Playing well not only applies to his shooting but also his defense. Don’t need him to be a stopper but give maximum effort and focus to have some effect. I think game one he got a key steal… do a little more of that type of stuff.
 
jom2003 said:
Above average offensively and below average defensively makes Bogey an average player for SF spot. KD, Lebron, Kawhi, PG, Butler, two Bridges, Tatum, Brown, Middleton, Ingram, Wiggins, Grant. Tell me how Bogey would start over any of them.

And Conley at this point of his career is VERY below average. I can name at least 16 or 17 PGs that will start over him, meaning he will be nothing more than a backup on over half of the teams in the league.
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Bojan needs to be our 3rd or 4th best offensive player, but instead he's our 2nd.

Conley isn't that bad of a player. He's just a bad fit. Much like Bojan, Conley needs to be a team's 4th best offensive player or maybe 3rd if options 1 and 2 are that strong. He should run some offense, hit a few open shots, be solid on both ends.
 
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