Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[LoPo]

And I’ve already explained that just because I say if Donavan had a good series we’d have beat Dallas doesn’t mean it applies to all playoff series… so why mention the others where he played well and we lost.

Playing well not only applies to his shooting but also his defense. Don’t need him to be a stopper but give maximum effort and focus to have some effect. I think game one he got a key steal… do a little more of that type of stuff.

Don did have a good game against Dallas. I've already pointed that out. In Game 6, he played well offensively and he busted his *** defensively. I'm not saying he played great defensively, but he wasn't some cone. We lost Game 6 despite him having a good game. Statistically, he should have had an even better game but Conley and Bojan were literally that bad.

What you're trying to do is say that if Donovan was some great defender, we would win that series. Whether you like it or not, we have to use an example of when Don played amazing offense and amazing defense in a series. He did that against Denver in Game 7, and it didn't lead to a win.

Steph Curry isn't asked to play better defense to win. Last year, his team didn't even make it out of the play-in game. Was he blamed for not playing better defense? No. Their loss was because injuries sapped them of the team necessary to advance. Well, our team doesn't have what is necessary to advance.

Our schemes and roster balance are both weak.

 

[jom2003]

Bojan needs to be our 3rd or 4th best offensive player, but instead he's our 2nd.

Conley isn't that bad of a player. He's just a bad fit. Much like Bojan, Conley needs to be a team's 4th best offensive player or maybe 3rd if options 1 and 2 are that strong. He should run some offense, hit a few open shots, be solid on both ends.

Nah, let Conley sit on the bench where he belongs. He's at a disadvantage matchup against nearly 20 PGs in this league. He can't even hold his own against Jalen ****ing Brunson what do you expect him to do against other elite PGs during playoffs?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Luka's team is better. When Luka was out, they had two starters who could create offense. If Don was out, we would be left with Clarkson. We saw this dynamic at play last postseason against a younger, inexperienced Memphis team. Conley actually had a pretty solid game with Don out, but it wasn't enough and we lost. Conley is actually worse this year than last.

Playoff offense and playoff defense are both important. One impacts the other. Not only is our defense weak, our offense doesn't make the opponent work. It's easy to defend then they have energy to torch our defense.


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That’s not the question though… swap Luka and Donovan which team wins the series.

We have some flaws for sure… but some on here act like nothing we do benefits Donovan and it’s just not true at all. Like all he needs are better teammates and he morphs into this different player. Don and Mike both shot awful on spot up threes… that is just a small sample statistical aberration that has nothing to do with the other players on the court. No system change or stretch 5 changes that. The answer I have it’s that the whole thing is part of the problem… not one particular player. So you can point out the other stuff and I will agree with some of it… but changing all that won’t change that Donovan has to get better at certain things and if he doesn’t then it’s all just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Don did have a good game against Dallas. I've already pointed that out. In Game 6, he played well offensively and he busted his *** defensively. I'm not saying he played great defensively, but he wasn't some cone. We lost Game 6 despite him having a good game. Statistically, he should have had an even better game but Conley and Bojan were literally that bad.

What you're trying to do is say that if Donovan was some great defender, we would win that series. Whether you like it or not, we have to use an example of when Don played amazing offense and amazing defense in a series. He did that against Denver in Game 7, and it didn't lead to a win.

Steph Curry isn't asked to play better defense to win. Last year, his team didn't even make it out of the play-in game. Was he blamed for not playing better defense? No. Their loss was because injuries sapped them of the team necessary to advance. Well, our team doesn't have what is necessary to advance.

Our schemes and roster balance are both weak.

Huh???? Playing well in one individual game does not guarantee victory ya dummy… playing well in games 1-4 consistently means we go up 3-1 or sweep… playing well across the series (which means there may be one bad game or two) is different than one damn game.

You haven’t watched Steph or you don’t know what you are watching. He’s worked really hard to get stronger and is a good defender. He does so much between his passing and gravity that GS can play two non shooters and guys like Klay that don’t dribble. Steph ain’t really relevant here… they lost because they had so many injuries to their stars (including Steph). You need the other guys too… no one is arguing that… but if Steph plays like **** his team won’t win.

If Donovan plays good on offense (so better than average) and plays Steph level defense then we win the Dallas series. Watch Steph guard the Mavs last series and tell me Donovan was that engaged and effective. He has a lot more help for sure… help matters… but we also played them without their best player for 3 games.

 

[LoPo]

That’s not the question though… swap Luka and Donovan which team wins the series.

We have some flaws for sure… but some on here act like nothing we do benefits Donovan and it’s just not true at all. Like all he needs are better teammates and he morphs into this different player. Don and Mike both shot awful on spot up threes… that is just a small sample statistical aberration that has nothing to do with the other players on the court. No system change or stretch 5 changes that. The answer I have it’s that the whole thing is part of the problem… not one particular player. So you can point out the other stuff and I will agree with some of it… but changing all that won’t change that Donovan has to get better at certain things and if he doesn’t then it’s all just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

If Don was on the Mavs, the Mavs win the series. Hell, they beat us without Luka for two games.

I never said "nothing we do benefits Donovan". I don't know where you get that.

My point has been clear - we gotta surround Donovan (and Rudy before we have come to this point where Rudy is probably sacrificed due to poor roster management) with guys who can defend the perimeter and can create a little offense. You were saying those same things in recent offseasons.

 

[LoPo]

Huh???? Playing well in one individual game does not guarantee victory ya dummy… playing well in games 1-4 consistently means we go up 3-1 or sweep… playing well across the series (which means there may be one bad game or two) is different than one damn game.

You haven’t watched Steph or you don’t know what you are watching. He’s worked really hard to get stronger and is a good defender. He does so much between his passing and gravity that GS can play two non shooters and guys like Klay that don’t dribble. Steph ain’t really relevant here… they lost because they had so many injuries to their stars (including Steph). You need the other guys too… no one is arguing that… but if Steph plays like **** his team won’t win.

If Donovan plays good on offense (so better than average) and plays Steph level defense then we win the Dallas series. Watch Steph guard the Mavs last series and tell me Donovan was that engaged and effective. He has a lot more help for sure… help matters… but we also played them without their best player for 3 games.

Game 6 is an example. Y'all keep complaining that he needs to be unselfish, play harder on defense and shoot efficiently. He did that, and we still lost.

I don't think Steph is a good defender. I think he's passable. It helps that he has loads of perimeter defending help on that roster. He is never asked to carry the entire load on offense and guard well on the other end, but y'all just expect Don to. When Steph's team wins, he's got a lot of help on both ends. Don hasn't had that luxury at any point in his career.

Due to that point above, I don't think we win the series if Don plays defense like Marcus Smart and offense like he's capable. Maybe we stretch it 7 games. It's a team game, and our team is weak and coaching shows zero flexibility.

Regardless, Don struggled this year because everybody else (minus JC at times) struggled. You can't just snap your fingers and say play better. Don struggled because they surrounded him on defense and he didn't play to his standard. Why? Because Dallas wasn't worried about the other 4 guys on the court burning us.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If Don was on the Mavs, the Mavs win the series. Hell, they beat us without Luka for two games.

I never said "nothing we do benefits Donovan". I don't know where you get that.

My point has been clear - we gotta surround Donovan (and Rudy before we have come to this point where Rudy is probably sacrificed due to poor roster management) with guys who can defend the perimeter and can create a little offense. You were saying those same things in recent offseasons.

We have Luka in that scenario... so its a Luka for Don swap.

I agree we needed to do that... but it will just end in second round exits unless Donovan himself improves as a defender and passer. Its also the hardest player types to find... defend the perimeter and create? They also need to be able to shoot or Donovan has no space to operate. You can have those guys and Donovan shoots 40/20 on big volume and you lose.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Game 6 is an example. Y'all keep complaining that he needs to be unselfish, play harder on defense and shoot efficiently. He did that, and we still lost.

I don't think Steph is a good defender. I think he's passable. It helps that he has loads of perimeter defending help on that roster. He is never asked to carry the entire load on offense and guard well on the other end, but y'all just expect Don to. When Steph's team wins, he's got a lot of help on both ends. Don hasn't had that luxury at any point in his career.

Due to that point above, I don't think we win the series if Don plays defense like Marcus Smart and offense like he's capable. Maybe we stretch it 7 games. It's a team game, and our team is weak and coaching shows zero flexibility.

He played well in game 6 and we lost... his role players had good games in the series that we also lost.

If Don plays like Marcus Smart on defense and plays good (so slightly above average) we sweep them... we win games 2/3 easily. Brunson ain't going for 40 against Smart... the series is over. GTFO.

Steph doesn't do it alone... but he's the reason Draymond can be an all-star. He's superior to Donovan on both sides of the ball. If Donovan gets to a place where he's at Steph's level defensively we will be a lot better.

 

[jom2003]

We have Luka in that scenario... so its a Luka for Don swap.

I agree we needed to do that... but it will just end in second round exits unless Donovan himself improves as a defender and passer. Its also the hardest player types to find... defend the perimeter and create? They also need to be able to shoot or Donovan has no space to operate. You can have those guys and Donovan shoots 40/20 on big volume and you lose.

No they don't have Luka for 3 games and went 2-1 against us. If we put Donovan on Mavs and not having Luka available for 3 games we'd be down 0-3 and the series would already have been over. And Mavs shot the lights out against our pathetic defense so I'm sure space to create won't be an issue for Donovan on the mavs.

 

[Ujfanatic]

Donovan is a great player and is only going to get better. He probably would have benefited from a few developmental years to start his career with lower expectations but instead the team tried to remain competitive each year. The team gambled and made too many "win-now" moves that put more pressure on him and took away options from the team now.

He will evolve into a better passer, decision-maker, and defender. He will learn to limit some of his current mistakes and will evolve into a better leader. Ultimately he will be a top 15-20 player in this league, perhaps even top-10 (which is hard to do at his size).

The question is what team will he be playing for. Frankly, with Riley, Spoelstra, and their current roster, the "Heat culture" would probably be the perfect place for him to take that next step.

If I were the Jazz, I would be looking a lot at the 2000-era 76ers as the blueprint. Bring in a new coach to push Donovan's development and surround him with size, toughness, and defense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He will evolve into a better passer, decision-maker, and defender. He will learn to limit some of his current mistakes and will evolve into a better leader. Ultimately he will be a top 15-20 player in this league, perhaps even top-10 (which is hard to do at his size).

So you are blaming him for our problems because he isn't a better passer or defender.....pffffttt! That isn't something teams ask of Steph or Lebron!!!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Trade of the day....

Bogey/Royce/Gay/NAW to Philly for Harris/Thybulle #23 (they can trade it on draft night after selecting for us)

Philly gets off a bunch of salary in a year... gets some players that fit with Embiid Harden... Gay and NAW are filler.

We get a better on ball wing. Tobias plays defense sometimes. Playing without a post player may help. Thybulle was basically benched in the playoffs. He's not improved much at all... maybe he gets better but at least he gets some steals and blocks (even though he gambles a bit too much).

At #23 we get Liddell or Brown or someone that falls.