Trading Bojan for Olynyk and not even getting 2nd round pick is not a fair trade in any Universe unless you're tanking.
You have your opion, I have mine.
Culture of winning or tank?
- Thread starter str8line
- Start date
You have your opion, I have mine.
I think you just don't know what tanking means and for some reason consider it synonymous with rebuilding.
Like I said I consider trading Bojan for Olynyk a tanking move considering the disparity in the players value and since you didn't get even a 2nd round.
Most pundits have given the Jazz a really bad grade for that trade here they even gave us a D+ grade.
Trade grades: Pistons steal Bojan Bogdanovic, hit home run with deal; underwhelming move for Jazz
It looks like Detroit is trying to take a step forward in 2022-23
www.cbssports.com
It's a D+ grade, so to me the only reasonable explanation is that we want to be bad. And to me that's tanking.
I gave another explanation as to why a rebuilding team might want to trade away a 33 year old, multiple times, but your preference seems to be to completely ignore it.Like I said I consider trading Bojan for Olynyk a tanking move considering the disparity in the players value and since you didn't get even a 2nd round.
Most pundits have given the Jazz a really bad grade for that trade here they even gave us a D+ grade.
Trade grades: Pistons steal Bojan Bogdanovic, hit home run with deal; underwhelming move for Jazz
It looks like Detroit is trying to take a step forward in 2022-23
It's a D+ grade, so to me the only reasonable explanation is that we want to be bad. And to me that's tanking.
The first part is simply not true, at least in the way that I think we normally use "random" (certainly in the way I'm trying to use it). Randomness is a feature of probability. You can't predict the next outcome or any single outcome after that, so it is random in that sense. But it's also mathematical in the sense that over many outcomes (a long period of time in terms of the NBA lottery) patterns can be predicted with a fairly high likelihood.
Of course the probability is higher to get a "good" outcome with a lower finish. (But the top (by far, I'd argue) outcomes in the example I gave went to teams that finished in positions 7 & 8 (Ja and Zion)). So in the limited history we have so far with the current lottery odds, it hasn't helped all that much to finish as first or second worst. If you want to take a 100-year sample (maybe even a 50-year sample), then yeah, it will probably be better for the teams that finish 1st and 2nd worst. But I don't think it's worth the wait of keeping our team bad that long to find out. The likelihood of this higher probability being helpful in any singular draft is not very high.
The whole point I'm trying to make is that the odds are simply not so good even for the best-odds result to reliably use that strategy as the central strategy for team-building.
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framer
Well-Known Member
Like I said I consider trading Bojan for Olynyk a tanking move considering the disparity in the players value and since you didn't get even a 2nd round.
Most pundits have given the Jazz a really bad grade for that trade here they even gave us a D+ grade.
Trade grades: Pistons steal Bojan Bogdanovic, hit home run with deal; underwhelming move for Jazz
It looks like Detroit is trying to take a step forward in 2022-23
It's a D+ grade, so to me the only reasonable explanation is that we want to be bad. And to me that's tanking.
The Jazz wanted a stretch center to run the offense they want to implement. Has there been a deal for unprotected firsts, they would have taken that. There wasn't so they got the player Hardy likely wanted and got some breathing room under the cap. I also think they wanted to develop Lauri and swapping Bojan for Olynyk has been working thus far for that end.
It would have been nearly impossible to strip the entire Jazz team before the season for parts without losing a tremendous amount of value. They have worked down the list hitting their priorities as they go. I'm pretty sure resolving the Rudy Gay situation is pretty high on the list. Losing 60 games is probably pretty low on the list. Developing Hardy is pretty high. Trading Conley looks to be a lot lower.
They have a plan, some parts have been wildly successful, others are still in progress and the Jazz seem to be extremely patient.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what we say anyway, let's see what Ainge does from here on out.
Will he be keeping the likes of Conley, Beasely, Clarkson, etc.. and keep the "winning culture" going?
Or will he be trading them out for a better chance to get Wembenyama.
Will he be keeping the likes of Conley, Beasely, Clarkson, etc.. and keep the "winning culture" going?
Or will he be trading them out for a better chance to get Wembenyama.
They weren't bad because they were tanking. They were bad just because they were bad.
And they didn't get good until they hit on a bunch of picks in what most people here would regard as the absolute worst place to finish (mid-to-low lottery).
This is one thing I (at least partially) agree with you on. It's not an either/or proposition. But I also agree with those who believe that it's hard to establish winning cultures if your method of tanking is to be as bad as possible for multiple years and to give up institutionally on rewarding competitiveness.
This
Domino
Well-Known Member
I don’t like the people who were so bought into the tank their already rooting for losses I’d much rather have fun watching this team of payers who actually care and are quite frankly way better to watch than any of the past jazz iterations than root for them to fail for a 14 percent chance at a player I think will be an injury prone bust so no I will not embrace the tank and I’m gonna have fun this season.
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