Dame Time

[infection]

Well optics are another thing. Like in a situation where there is a distressed asset and the other team doesn't want to be seen as sending assets or even just not receiving them, 2nds are great for sending SOMETHING. In the case of the Jazz, the Jazz wouldn't really be losing anything, but the receiving team at least gets to save face on a deal.

We see good players exchanged for seconds all the time. You want to have those in the cupboard for when you're winning and looking for those pieces that make you even marginally better than the competition. Better to use 2nds than 1sts, and if we don't have any 2nds then you're left with much less granular and much more valuable liquid assets that you're sending out.

TLDR; never use 1sts if 2nds will do. The Jazz have almost 0 of them right now.

I totally get it. I save lots of money at Walmart and nobody knows any different. It puts me at an advantage against those who don’t. But I guess the people who didn’t shop get some kind of satisfaction of having not gotten something from Walmart, and they value that much higher than the practicality and improved daily function.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Let's say that just for the sake of making a point that four 2nds = a top-20 protected 1st. From there, let's translate that to currency where a 2nd round pick is a quarter and the aforementioned 1st-rounders is a dollar. One player is on the market and can be had for 25 cents, another can be had for 40 cents. With three seconds you can get those players, but if you are short seconds, you are basically faced with dipping into assets that would result in overpaying, coming up with something convoluted that nobody is interested in dealing with, or just generally not getting the deal done.

Then there's another scenario where 2nds can push a bigger deal over the top. The Jazz actually did exactly this in the Conley deal.

No one can say that 2nds aren't worth anything and then watch them get exchanged in consequential deals all the ****ing time.

 

[infection]

Let's say that just for the sake of making a point that four 2nds = a top-20 protected 1st. From there, let's translate that to currency where a 2nd round pick is a quarter and the aforementioned 1st-rounders is a dollar. One player is on the market and can be had for 25 cents, another can be had for 40 cents. With three seconds you can get those players, but if you are short seconds, you are basically faced with dipping into assets that would result in overpaying, coming up with something convoluted that nobody is interested in dealing with, or just generally not getting the deal done.

Then there's another scenario where 2nds can push a bigger deal over the top. The Jazz actually did exactly this in the Conley deal.

No one can say that 2nds aren't worth anything and then watch them get exchanged in consequential deals all the ****ing time.

For being “an opportunist,” he lacks a lot of frugality and leaves a lot on the table in some deals. Swallow your pride and box that **** up for leftovers.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Let's say that just for the sake of making a point that four 2nds = a top-20 protected 1st. From there, let's translate that to currency where a 2nd round pick is a quarter and the aforementioned 1st-rounders is a dollar. One player is on the market and can be had for 25 cents, another can be had for 40 cents. With three seconds you can get those players, but if you are short seconds, you are basically faced with dipping into assets that would result in overpaying, coming up with something convoluted that nobody is interested in dealing with, or just generally not getting the deal done.

Then there's another scenario where 2nds can push a bigger deal over the top. The Jazz actually did exactly this in the Conley deal.

No one can say that 2nds aren't worth anything and then watch them get exchanged in consequential deals all the ****ing time.

There are several smart people that have done this analysis and Andy Larsen compiled them when we made the Lakers trade in order to discuss value. I'll try and find it and link it later.

Whatever value you might think a second is worth, or I think a second is worth, or experts say a second is worth, Danny Ainge appears to think it is worth way way less.

 

[Shad]

I love Dame, I would have loved it if he got out when he did that interview several years ago when he said he would only play for LA or Utah if Portland didn't want him but..... he's just too old for where we are at. Once again, Love Dame

 

[HermanG]

Well for one, sign a good free agent or two.

Parlay JC, KO, and/or THT (depending on how things play out this off-season). Rent cap space if they can’t turn all of it into legit pieces. The Jazz are still waaay short on 2nds and they can get those through these avenues. They’re really good for lubing deals.

I think next year is the last train out of town for picking up assets while still building in earnest.

I’m not touching the 1sts to rent a player in their mid-30’s. I’m just not.

I thought you meant premium assets. But yeah as others pointed out DA doesnt seem to care much about 2nds.

I dont think they have set the goal for next year, but if they had their choice they would use the cap space to build up. But only if they like what they see.

DA will be opportunistic as he always proclaims and has shown to be.. but my guess is they are fine sticking with player development one more year.

Likely still gonna make they playoffs though.

With cap space I dont think they take anything bad beyond 2024, since they probably gotta get a long term deal done with Lauri in the summer of 2024 and I would want to use that space to build before that deal is no longer on discount.

 

[Elizah Huge]

View: https://twitter.com/Dame_Lillard/status/1659216716109426688?t=zFUBeyja7fe7ZAU8E8N7uQ&s=19

 

[stormkoopacv03]

I wish Dame all the best, whether he stays and gets help by trading the 3rd pick or simply gets traded. Dude has been the most loyal. Respect!

 

[Nate505]

I love Dame, I would have loved it if he got out when he did that interview several years ago when he said he would only play for LA or Utah if Portland didn't want him but..... he's just too old for where we are at. Once again, Love Dame

That's pretty much where I'm at, but I would be doing my best to drink the kool aid if the Jazz did get him. He's one of my favorite non-Jazz players ever.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I love Dame, I would have loved it if he got out when he did that interview several years ago when he said he would only play for LA or Utah if Portland didn't want him but..... he's just too old for where we are at. Once again, Love Dame

Him and Lauri are coming off career years. Dame isnt too old. Dame + Lauri is an amazing team and you can stay under the cap because of Lauri's contract. You add in Walker Kessler and you got a really good threesome.

IDK what it would take to get Dame, but of course it would take this year's 9th overall pick and probably a lot of our other high value picks, but if you can keep it too mostly the further out picks, you can build a super strong team around those 3 while still retaining some of the talent on the roster that helped us be a decent team last year. Then use the two latter picks this year with smart drafting to get young high upside talent.

The West is not that strong this year and I dont see it gaining a ton of strength next year. Victor ****ing Wembenamya just went to one of the smarter organizations in the NBA. The time to strike might be now unless you want to peak the team around the time Victor is dominating the NBA.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Listening to Locke he brought up a point that Dame's salary is so large it might be hard to trade just from a logistics standpoint and Utah has an advantage there. I wonder if you could get Dame for fairly cheap (9th pick this year, Wolves 2025 pick, Cavs 2025 pick) and whatever is necessary for salary filler (Locke said something like it might be possible to send partial salary to the Blazers and use the rest of the cap-room, but he wasnt sure if that worked per CBA) but if it did work, I would give them Sexton (sorry just not going to be super useful to have Sexton when you got Dame playing at least 30 MPG). So that's 3 premium draft picks and 1 good young player on a fair contract. Per recent trades that's an underpay for Dame, but it's good value if they cant anything anywhere else.

You would still have the picks after 2025 to retool after the Dame era and create a new version of the team around Lauri.


Draft Gregory Jackson Jr at 16 and be happy.

And isnt Cooper Flag the 2025 draft? That's a super high stakes draft if he is. That would be my selling point to the Blazers.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Portland has some fascinating what if pivot opportunities. I think if I was them I may just draft Scoot then retain Grant and pivot mid season… not sure how great an asset Grant is but if you trade Dame he surely walks for nothing.

I cooked up a half baked idea last night when I was bored where they do a three team deal (maybe ends up 4) where Ayton ends up in Portland, Nurkic in Phoenix we add some picks and take some money to smooth things out on all sides and Phoenix uses the picks to round out the roster… Portland gets some picks and we get 3rd pick… maybe it’s like 25% baked but I could see Portland talking themselves into Ayton as a big they have been missing.

I have some other scenarios I’m cooking up too but it’s hard to find a home for Nurkic.