2023 NBA Draft Megathread

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Are we drafting GG to be a small usage, defensive role player like Grimes? I think GG can succeed, but not in the way he completely failed at in college. He will have to find another way like Grimes and McDaniels. I think most prospects look pretty amazing if you just ignored when they looked bad. But GG wasn't exactly Mr. Efficiency in non conference games either. He was better than his 44% TS in conference games at least, but the 45% on twos combine with the low FTr is not promising. He shot the ball well from 3 though, I like him as a spot up shooter and can buy into that as an NBA skill.

Usually we care more about when the competition is better, but if we're entertaining this idea that we just ignore the conference games many of my questions marks still persist. He has a low FTr, his assist to turnover ratio is comically bad, he was not special from a rebounding/stocks perspective, and while I didn't watch these games do we believe he was playing defense?

The SEC is a tough college basketball conference. The NBA is a million times harder.

So because a 17/18 year old failed as a Freshman that defines his career? I get what you are doing, trying to be as general as possible, but these situations are more unique and complex so your whole schtick doesnt work. You cant paint everything with the same brush.

 

[Elizah Huge]

The one thing I keep coming back to with GG is his age and his size.

He will barely turn 19 halfway through his rookie season.

For comparison:

Wembanyama - will turn 20 halfway through his rookie season

Miller - will turn 21 halfway through his rookie season

Scoot - will turn 20 towards the end of his rookie season

Amen and Ausar - will turn 21 towards the end of their rookie seasons

Walker - will turn 20 at the beginning of his rookie season

Hendricks - will turn 20 at the beginning of his rookie season

Black - will turn 20 towards the end of his rookie season

Wallace - will turn 20 at the beginning of his rookie season

He’s a full year younger than pretty much everyone else. He will be a big 6’9 in shoes with almost a 6’11 wingspan.

He was basically a HS senior playing as a freshman in college. Averaging 15.4 PPG and 5.9 RPG in that setting is impressive even though his efficiency wasn’t great. He shot 36.2% on catch and shoot 3’s.

He was the #1 overall recruit in 2023 before reclassifying to the 2022 class.

Andrew Wiggins did the same thing almost a decade ago. Here is their per 40 numbers:

Wiggins

20.8 PPG
7.1 RPG
1.9 APG
1.4 SPG
1.2 BPG
44.8% from field
49.3% from 2
34.1% from 3 on 4.4 attempts

GG

19.3 PPG
7.4 RPG
1.1 APG
1 SPG
1 BPG
38.4% from field
41.9% from 2
32.4% from 3 on 6.7 attempts

Wiggins played for a far superior team and GG didn’t have a teammate anywhere near as good as Embiid to take some of the pressure off of him. Wiggins was also a full 2 months older than GG at the same time.

I’m definitely starting to see the potential and upside with him. I personally will give the edge to players with the HS pedigree if it is close.

 

[KqWIN]

So because a 17/18 year old failed as a Freshman that defines his career? I get what you are doing, trying to be as general as possible, but these situations are more unique and complex so your whole schtick doesnt work. You cant paint everything with the same brush.

Uh no. I also see what you're trying to do, which is make up some statement that I did not say to make it easier to argue against. I specifically said he can make it. Your whole schtick is to directly ignore anything that you don't like.

I was really specific about what I don't like about GG. Do you need me to be more specific than to list out the things? I don't even know what that would look like but I guess listing those things out verbatim is too general and vague for you. You brought up this idea that conference games should not count because he was overmatched. In the non conference games many of those question marks were as present as ever.

I get the premise. His age explains why he is bad.....but why do we think he was good? I like his spot up shooting, as stated many times before. But beyond that I don't see many signs of life.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Uh no. I also see what you're trying to do, which is make up some statement that I did not say to make it easier to argue against. I specifically said he can make it. Your whole schtick is to directly ignore anything that you don't like.

I was really specific about what I don't like about GG. Do you need me to be more specific than to list out the things? I don't even know what that would look like but I guess listing those things out verbatim is too general and vague for you. You brought up this idea that conference games should not count because he was overmatched. In the non conference games many of those question marks were as present as ever.

I get the premise. His age explains why he is bad.....but why do we think he was good? I like his spot up shooting, as stated many times before. But beyond that I don't see many signs of life.

No, I very clearly state GG sucked last year. I dont ignore it. I fully understand it and i've been on that side of the fence of thinking about him. I just can use some context and my eyes to see the talent and skill level.

The funny thing is that GG isnt even that far away from being a good NBA player. He's a lot closer than most people think.

 

[KqWIN]

The one thing I keep coming back to with GG is his age and his size.

He will barely turn 19 halfway through his rookie season.

For comparison:

Wembanyama - will turn 20 halfway through his rookie season

Miller - will turn 21 halfway through his rookie season

Scoot - will turn 20 towards the end of his rookie season

Amen and Ausar - will turn 21 towards the end of their rookie seasons

Walker - will turn 20 at the beginning of his rookie season

Hendricks - will turn 20 at the beginning of his rookie season

Black - will turn 20 towards the end of his rookie season

Wallace - will turn 20 at the beginning of his rookie season

He’s a full year younger than pretty much everyone else. He will be a big 6’9 in shoes with almost a 6’11 wingspan.

He was basically a HS senior playing as a freshman in college. Averaging 15.4 PPG and 5.9 RPG in that setting is impressive even though his efficiency wasn’t great. He shot 36.2% on catch and shoot 3’s.

He was the #1 overall recruit in 2023 before reclassifying to the 2022 class.

Andrew Wiggins did the same thing almost a decade ago. Here is their per 40 numbers:

Wiggins

20.8 PPG
7.1 RPG
1.9 APG
1.4 SPG
1.2 BPG
44.8% from field
49.3% from 2
34.1% from 3 on 4.4 attempts

GG

19.3 PPG
7.4 RPG
1.1 APG
1 SPG
1 BPG
38.4% from field
41.9% from 2
32.4% from 3 on 6.7 attempts

Wiggins played for a far superior team and GG didn’t have a teammate anywhere near as good as Embiid to take some of the pressure off of him. Wiggins was also a full 2 months older than GG at the same time.

I’m definitely starting to see the potential and upside with him. I personally will give the edge to players who had the pedigree in HS if it is close.

This is leaving out the thing Wiggins was best at, but who are we kidding, there is an incredibly massive gap between the two in their freshman year. Wiggins was second team all America.

 

[Elizah Huge]

This is leaving out the thing Wiggins was best at, but who are we kidding, there is an incredibly massive gap between the two in their freshman year. Wiggins was second team all America.

That’s why Wiggins went #1 and why we are talking about GG in the 9-16 range. I definitely think GG would have better numbers if he played on a better team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is leaving out the thing Wiggins was best at, but who are we kidding, there is an incredibly massive gap between the two in their freshman year. Wiggins was second team all America.

One played for Kansas and the other played for South Carolina

 

[KqWIN]

No, I very clearly state GG sucked last year. I dont ignore it. I fully understand it and i've been on that side of the fence of thinking about him. I just can use some context and my eyes to see the talent and skill level.

The funny thing is that GG isnt even that far away from being a good NBA player. He's a lot closer than most people think.

Well you are trying to make the case that we should ignore the bad part of the season. It's certainly a take to say we should ignore a portion of the season because he was clearly overmatched while also saying he is closer to being a good NBA level. Whatever floats your boat man.

If he is closer than we think, it is because his role player skills are much better than what he displayed. I'm open to that idea as I've said countless times now. I think if GG makes it, it just won't be in the version of him that we are imaging as the "high potential" scenario. If we are going to choose to ignore something, I would say we should ignore the number one option stuff and start thinking about how he can help an NBA team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Well you are trying to make the case that we should ignore the bad part of the season. It's certainly a take to say we should ignore a portion of the season because he was clearly overmatched while also saying he is closer to being a good NBA level. Whatever floats your boat man.

If he is closer than we think, it is because his role player skills are much better than what he displayed. I'm open to that idea as I've said countless times now. I think if GG makes it, it just won't be in the version of him that we are imaging as the "high potential" scenario. If we are going to choose to ignore something, I would say we should ignore the number one option stuff and start thinking about how he can help an NBA team.

You draft talent. You don't draft him to be a guaranteed #1 option. You take the talent and you mold it. The footwork, the size, the athleticism, teh shooting stroke, the handle, the defensive potential (yes, has shown he plays defense outside of college, more basketball exist than his 32 games at South Carolina), and the youth. He's the entire package as far as a score first forward goes.

 

[KqWIN]

That’s why Wiggins went #1 and why we are talking about GG in the 9-16 range. I definitely think GG would have better numbers if he played on a better team.

One was an all american, one was a net negative player. I don't really think there's a need to compare the two. There are guys like Cam and Clowney in this draft who are a few months older than GG. Those months count, but we there were also actually good players.

I do think GG could have potentially looked better on a different team. I don't buy into him as this number one scorer type guy, but I could be convinced that he has better role player skills than he displayed. He had a better reputation for this stuff in high school, but at the same time he was basically an F- at South Carolina.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I've said before that my approach to evaluating players is very simple. I just look at how intelligently they move. That's most of it. The elite players move with more purpose and intelligence than the average players. It applies on both ends. It considers things like balance, nuance, advanced timing, handspeed, footspeed, and how well they see the game. The next consideration is how hard they play, whether they're aggressive getting downhill and making plays happen.

You can say that it's a lazy approach and that I probably have a blindspot, especially for players who don't look that physically gifted, but it can sift out a lot of guys right away who aren't going to be starter-level NBA players.

If GG is doing the stuff below as a 17 year-old, it shows he has the physical talent to be a high-level NBA player. No one knows what he's going to be for 2 or 3 years, but I can see why scouts would call him the best prospect in his class.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQOQ0SzRN44&t=7s

 

[Elizah Huge]

One was an all american, one was a net negative player. I don't really think there's a need to compare the two. There are guys like Cam and Clowney in this draft who are a few months older than GG. Those months count, but we there were also actually good players.

I do think GG could have potentially looked better on a different team. I don't buy into him as this number one scorer type guy, but I could be convinced that he has better role player skills than he displayed. He had a better reputation for this stuff in high school, but at the same time he was basically an F- at South Carolina.

7 months is more than a few. It’s not like either one of them lit the world on fire either. They both weren’t #1 options either and played on way better teams.