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Douchebag K said:
well Thriller is a pretty good example of such side effects
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You’re the one who has argued against vaccines. Talk about cognitive decline! But that’s okay. Keep arguing against them. Vaccines bad virus good! I’m sure the garbage websites and blogs you read will be proven right someday… mocking and belittling such a serious virus has become your schtick. I get it, you’re in this deep, why let any facts stop you now? I just know that I haven’t met a single vax denier that has impressed me with their intellect. They all make the same 2-3 that have been made since the start of immunizations. They just slightly alter them to fit their identity. I just wish you had found yourself a better identity, one that didn’t result in countless preventable deaths.

Seriously, go **** yourself. How many more people would be alive today had they refused to take the advice from low self esteem losers, like you, who find their self worth and identity through vaccine disinformation? Seriously, go **** yourself. I have absolutely no respect for pieces of **** like you.
 
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Douchebag K said:
where ?
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Sorry, I left the study in the Stockton thread.

Red said:
In any case, I should think this would be the most likely explanation for excess deaths in the first place:

www.bu.edu

New Analysis Reveals Many Excess Deaths Attributed to Natural Causes Are Actually Uncounted COVID-19 Deaths

The new study provides the most compelling data yet to suggest that excess mortality rates from chronic illnesses and other natural causes were actually driven by COVID-19 infections.
www.bu.edu www.bu.edu

“Focusing on excess deaths by natural causes rather than all-cause excess death estimates provides a more accurate understanding of the true number of deaths attributable to COVID-19, as it eliminates external causes for mortality, such as intentional or unintentional injuries, for which COVID-19 would not be a contributing factor.

“Our findings show that many COVID-19 deaths went uncounted during the pandemic, says study corresponding author Andrew Stokes, associate professor of global health, who has led numerous studies analyzing excess mortality patterns and drivers during the pandemic”.

“Importantly, these findings also disprove political assertions or public beliefs that have attributed mortality during the pandemic to COVID-19 vaccinations or shelter-in-place policies”.

Here’s the recent study, if you’re interested….

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Douchebag K said:
dude that is a joke. 1 it's in the US only it's full of "suggest" "possible" "likely"
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Actually, it’s your “vaccines are killing people” that’s wrong. And you know what? It’s no joke. But just do what you think is best for you, that’s all we can really do anyway. Trust. Don’t trust. Whatever. After all, just saying I don’t buy into your belief. My baseline was not anti-vax to begin with. (Not that your’s was, I don’t know).

And my chosen approach was the “one for all, all for one” approach I saw reflected in both masking and vaccination. Distrust, conspiracism, irrational beliefs, a president who told America the virus would “disappear like magic”, all those responses from the president, and citizens, was very disappointing.

And into that mix arrives “the vaccinations kill” hysteria.

It’s all part of the irrationality permeating my society. There’s my baseline, and the reason I saw “vaccines kill” as just more evidence of that breakdown in rationality. But, bear in mind, I’ve been following that trend in America for a lot of years now….

Of course I took not one iota of that irrational lunacy seriously.

I was just suitably “jaw dropped”, and carried on with what I perceived to be a rational based, and responsible citizen-based approach, until it’s proven wrong. I did what I felt was best for me, and was deeply saddened by the selfishness our president actually encouraged.

Douchebag K said:
enjoy lol


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I did not know chronic hives was a fatal condition. Hey, I just pointed you to a new study contradicting your belief. Not for one second did I expect you to be impressed. You’re believing exactly what you want to believe. I would not expect otherwise. That said, it would be remiss of me not to post that most recent PNAS study.
 
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Red said:
Actually, it’s your “vaccines are killing people” that’s wrong. And you know what? It’s no joke. But just do what you think is best for you, that’s all we can really do anyway. Trust. Don’t trust. Whatever. After all, just saying I don’t buy into your belief. My baseline was not anti-vax to begin with. (Not that your’s was, I don’t know).

And my chosen approach was the “one for all, all for one” approach I saw reflected in both masking and vaccination. Distrust, conspiracism, irrational beliefs, a president who told America the virus would “disappear like magic”, all those responses from the president, and citizens, was very disappointing.

And into that mix arrives “the vaccinations kill” hysteria.

It’s all part of the irrationality permeating my society. There’s my baseline, and the reason I saw “vaccines kill” as just more evidence of that breakdown in rationality. But, bear in mind, I’ve been following that trend in America for a lot of years now….

Of course I took not one iota of that irrational lunacy seriously.

I was just suitably “jaw dropped”, and carried on with what I perceived to be a rational based, and responsible citizen-based approach, until it’s proven wrong. I did what I felt was best for me, and was deeply saddened by the selfishness our president actually encouraged.


I did not know chronic hives was a fatal condition. Hey, I just pointed you to a new study contradicting your belief. Not for one second did I expect you to be impressed. You’re believing exactly what you want to believe. I would not expect otherwise. That said, it would be remiss of me not to post that most recent PNAS study.
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well i started off Covid very much part of "your team" approach. I only started seeing things and changing my mind about some things about a year into it when i observed sooooo many lies and misrepresentations and lack of facts in things that were being pushed. Irrationality swings in many directions. For example your brain dead friend Thriller who when Joe Rogan talked about taking Ivermectin and other such options rather than the Pfizer treatment banged on about it being "horse wormer" I have no idea of whether that is in any way effective but what i do know is that it is one of the most used medications of all time primarily in humans and that has an extraordinarily good safety profile. And gained a nobel prize for the person who invented it for it's use in humans. There has been incredible irrational belief in certain parts regarding the pros of the vaccines without specific replicable data across all age groups and a refusal to even consider the cons particuarly for kids and young healthy people

And i'll have you stand corrected i haven't said "vaccination kills" at all. Rather i am on the view which is now quite widespread outside of the US where your healthcare system is so deeply corrupted that it is often unnecessary and pointless and carries some risks. I find it staggering that people blindly believe your medical industry in some of these matters. The excess deaths is a big issue because it's very much been swept under the table and the lack of proper safety long term studies of these new injections before being released to market. I don't know what the causes actually are. But if you don't consider whether they may or may not have a part in some of this issues it's wilfull ignorance or just stupidity.


and please see above where i clarified the hives thing was meant in humour if that wasn't clear.
 
Douchebag K said:
well i started off Covid very much part of "your team" approach. I only started seeing things and changing my mind about some things about a year into it when i observed sooooo many lies and misrepresentations and lack of facts in things that were being pushed. Irrationality swings in many directions. For example your brain dead friend Thriller who when Joe Rogan talked about taking Ivermectin and other such options rather than the Pfizer treatment banged on about it being "horse wormer" I have no idea of whether that is in any way effective but what i do know is that it is one of the most used medications of all time primarily in humans and that has an extraordinarily good safety profile. And gained a nobel prize for the person who invented it for it's use in humans. There has been incredible irrational belief in certain parts regarding the pros of the vaccines without specific replicable data across all age groups and a refusal to even consider the cons particuarly for kids and young healthy people

And i'll have you stand corrected i haven't said "vaccination kills" at all. Rather i am on the view which is now quite widespread outside of the US where your healthcare system is so deeply corrupted that it is often unnecessary and pointless and carries some risks. I find it staggering that people blindly believe your medical industry in some of these matters. The excess deaths is a big issue because it's very much been swept under the table and the lack of proper safety long term studies of these new injections before being released to market. I don't know what the causes actually are. But if you don't consider whether they may or may not have a part in some of this issues it's wilfull ignorance or just stupidity.


and please see above where i clarified the hives thing was meant in humour if that wasn't clear.
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First of all, thanks for going into detail on where you’re coming from, and correcting me regarding you not having said “vaccinations kills”. I appreciate knowing your position better, always a good thing.

The study I posted regarding excess deaths, was only just published in Feb., 2024. Perhaps you can find rebuttals, if not yet, eventually. For me, seeing the study published by our National Academy of Science gets my attention. I expect it’s a serious study, with good review before publication.

My own position, my own bottom line, that the vaccinations are potentially as dangerous as Covid, I believe is unlikely to be true, is my spin, and is unchanged at this point. There was a broad based irrational response to the pandemic, on the part of the American public, not at all helped by Trump’s dismissals(I extend credit for fast tracking the new vaccines, though), and mostly emanating from the right wing of our polarized society. Again, from a personal perspective, that means taking my chance with vaccinations, and rejecting as an anathema to me all the Irrationality rampaging through our society. Not just where Covid is concerned, but the entire genre of “alternate realities”, and “alternate facts”. I do see the anti-Covid vaccine reaction as a part of the rejection of science and authority, that has “infected” American culture. And, while it’s not really a subject for these threads, anti-intellectualism has been a dominant American trait since colonial times.
 
Red said:
anti-intellectualism has been a dominant American trait since colonial times.
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Wait, what?!? You think anti-intellectualism has been the dominant American trait since colonial times? As in, that is the strongest trait, there are no traits in America that have been stronger. You believe the country that created the greatest university system the world has ever seen, the country that invented nearly all of the computational/networking infrastructure enabling the information age, the country that invents the overwhelming majority of medications, the only country to have ever landed people on the moon, you believe that country has no trait in all of its culture that has been more front and center than anti-intellectualism since colonial times? I think you are deluded. I think that is a really stupid opinion, but please do attempt to provide some backing for that claim. Or are you just pulling nonsensical statements of hate for your country from your backside?
 
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