The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[fishonjazz]

So you're ok with a 7% increase? 80k would be a $5600 hit to you. Are you okay with that?

I think you misread my post.
I'm a broke dude who isn't begging for lower taxes. I said nothing about wanting to pay more taxes.

I'm not going to cry for rich dudes who can't buy another yaught. I will leave that to you.



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[MT Steve]

You can do both, at the same time.

Cutting spending, cutting taxes for certain reasons. Still spend and improve social services.

Would be hard to improve social services when you'd have to basically gut them to support a 15% corporate tax rate.

 

[Bucknutz]

I think you misread my post.
I'm a broke dude who isn't begging for lower taxes. I said nothing about wanting to pay more taxes.

I'm not going to cry for rich dudes who can't buy another yaught. I will leave that to you.

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Im not rich either but you are asking me to add 7% to my tax bill. Because F the Rich Dudes.

 

[fishonjazz]

Im not rich either but you are asking me to add 7% to my tax bill. Because F the Rich Dudes.

The tax increases I have seen proposed have always had a dollar account attached to them. That dollar amount I have seen is like super super high.

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[fishonjazz]

So you're ok with a 7% increase? 80k would be a $5600 hit to you. Are you okay with that?

Now if I was making a million per year and you told me I was going to have to pay another 100,000 in taxes then yes, I would be fine with that. (Don't even know if I'm anywhere close with the math btw). I would be just fine. Better than fine actually. I would be rich.

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[PJF]

View: https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1831487178675011657

 

[LogGrad98]

Please tell me what raising the rate will do compared to this. Taking 7% more from businesses, without any return for the business, what does the business or American persons get out of it?

Fewer meaningless stock buy-backs that only benefit the rich, and more money for infrastructure and social programs. And less national debt.

 

[LogGrad98]

Dropping a rate 6% for companies that make products in America is the same as dropping income tax 30% and businesses tax rates to 0%?

Not the same.

Lets see how high taxes work in these blue states:

Fleeing Massachusetts taxpayers cost state $3.9B in 2022 income, IRS data show

Taxpayers fleeing Massachusetts cost the state roughly $3.9 billion in 2022, placing it fifth in the country for loss of “adjusted gross income” due to domestic migration, behind just California, N…

www.bostonherald.com

People leaving the state of Massachusetts cost the state 3.9 billion in 2022
California - 23.8 billion
NY - 14.2 Billion
Illinois - 9.9 Billion
New Jersey - 5.3 Billion

High Taxes, High Regulation, High Cost of Living = mass exodus

Let's see what a business man says about these states and taxes:

View: https://x.com/SOULDI3T/status/1831530673108140058

Yes, O'Leary will only be happy when his tax bill is negative. He is a far cry from Cuban and Buffet and others who have spoken out about the lop-sided low tax rates paid by the ultra-wealthy. He is a bad example of what the taxes really mean for ordinary people.

 

[TheStormofWar]

Dropping a rate 6% for companies that make products in America is the same as dropping income tax 30% and businesses tax rates to 0%?

Not the same.

A yup, it is.

What constitutes "making products in America" exactly? Is it a sourcing everything, from raw materials to transportation or manufacture to distribution in the US? For almost every large business in the US, this is impossible. So let's go ahead and make that "partly" manufactured in US. Okay, how do define that? Let's say a factory? Sweet, let's open a small, part time shop in Hooper to manufacture a widget a month. Windfall! Do you see how this works now? Most businesses either get enough tax breaks as it is and some don't even pay taxes because reasons.

Like I said, companies reaping record profits do not need any more tax breaks. Anything else is a Kansas City Shuffle.

 

[Safetydan]

Remember corporate tax rates only hit net profit. They don't affect a business's ability to run their business. If anything, a higher corporate tax rate incentivizes re-investment into the business. Do we not want more spent on R&D? More investment to keep talented employees?

Tax havens existed in 2017 before Trump's tax cuts reduced the corporate statutory rate from 35% to 21% just as they do now. Capital flight from state to state occurs here and there but moving a whole-*** business into another country is entirely different. Rich people like Kevin O'Leary love to threaten us but I'm okay with calling their bluff to a certain point.

To AI's point we need to remain somewhat competitive, So I believe there is a threshold here. 28-30 percent is a reasonable middle ground. We can afford to be on the high side because doing business in the US is going to be attractive and we can leverage that.

Lowering it is insane though, That's just more money in their pockets.

 

[TheStormofWar]

Remember corporate tax rates only hit net profit. They don't affect a business's ability to run their business. If anything, a higher corporate tax rate incentivizes re-investment into the business. Do we not want more spent on R&D? More investment to keep talented employees?

Tax havens existed in 2017 before Trump's tax cuts reduced the corporate statutory rate from 35% to 21% just as they do now. Capital flight from state to state occurs here and there but moving a whole-*** business into another country is entirely different. Rich people like Kevin O'Leary love to threaten us but I'm okay with calling their bluff to a certain point.

To AI's point we need to remain somewhat competitive, So I believe there is a threshold here. 28-30 percent is a reasonable middle ground. We can afford to be on the high side because doing business in the US is going to be attractive and we can leverage that.

Lowering it is insane though, That's just more money in their pockets.

 

[LogGrad98]

A yup, it is.

What constitutes "making products in America" exactly? Is it a sourcing everything, from raw materials to transportation or manufacture to distribution in the US? For almost every large business in the US, this is impossible. So let's go ahead and make that "partly" manufactured in US. Okay, how do define that? Let's say a factory? Sweet, let's open a small, part time shop in Hooper to manufacture a widget a month. Windfall! Do you see how this works now? Most businesses either get enough tax breaks as it is and some don't even pay taxes because reasons.

Like I said, companies reaping record profits do not need any more tax breaks. Anything else is a Kansas City Shuffle.

Something else worth pointing out along these lines is that most of the time these changes tend to take aim at mega-corporations, not mom and pop shops. Thresholds often are at the $100 million mark for which corporations pay what. There is no reason we shouldn't be taxing mega-corps, especially those that are effectively oligopolies, hugely for the privilege of having not been regulated to allow them to get so big in the first place. Too big to fail needs to go away as that was proven to be entirely ********. If you make up 1/3 of the biggest companies controlling a single industry you should be paying max taxes, marginal corp rates on the order of 80%+. That is, after all, what ALL large corporations paid in the American economic hey-day of the 50's. And that did nothing to stifle anything. Everyone prospered. No reason not to go back to that after all.

I also think we need laws around stock buy-backs and other hand-outs to rich shareholders. A flat 50% tax on buy-backs would be good to start. If you want to do a $1.5 bill buy-back, you pay half that amount in tax straight up. So it costs you $1.5 bill + $750 mill, so a $1.5 bill buy-back costs $2.25 bill. I mean if you are reaping such windfall profits it must have been at the expense of either taxes or prices or wages. Only fair to balance the playing-field.

 

[LogGrad98]

Something else I have been mulling over is a way to limit CEO greed and run-away pay. One way would be to implement a 100% tax on CEO pay on anything over $1 million total compensation paid to a single person, regardless of source. Pay the CEO $24 million in salary and stocks and the company also pays a $24 million tax for the privilege. Even better, give tax breaks for raising total compensation for everyone outside of the C-suite, and double that for hourly workers. Want a great tax break? Raise your hourly wages and you get a maximum tax break to do so. Want to pay the officers extravagant money? Pay 100% tax on it and you still can! Then close loop-holes so there is no way around this. I think most companies would rather give the money to their hourly work-force or middle management rather than the government anyway, and a CEO truly worth $20 mill will still get it, because it will be worth it for the company to pay the tax.

 

[PJF]

View: https://x.com/townhallcom/status/1831785531090595868

 

[Al-O-Meter]

but moving a whole-*** business into another country is entirely different.

That is not how the system works. They do not move the whole business to another country. Google, Apple, Microsoft, and all of Silicon Valley didn’t move to Ireland, but that is where their profits are booked.

Here is how the system works:

An American Megacorp creates a holding company based in the United States at 1209 North Orange Street, Wilmington DE 19801. That is the exact address of Google, Apple, GM, Walmart, Hillary Clinton Inc, Donald Trump Inc, and half a million other corporations.


View: https://medium.com/knowledge-stew/how-one-address-in-delaware-is-home-to-285-000-companies-32d963a2b706


The Megacorp Holding company owns three companies: Megacorp Manufacturing Inc., Megacorp Ireland Inc., and Megacorp Distribution Inc. All are based in the United States except for Megacorp Ireland Inc., which is based in Ireland.

Megacorp Manufacturing makes the product and they sell the product at their cost to Megacorp Ireland Inc. Megacorp Manufacturing makes no profit, and so pays no taxes.

Megacorp Ireland buys the product from Megacorp Manufacturing, and marks it up to make lots of profit. They pay taxes on the profit to Ireland, where they are based. Megacorp Ireland then sells the product to Megacorp Distribution Inc. Megacorp Ireland makes a ton of money, and they pay tax on that profit to Ireland.

Megacorp Distribution buys the product from Megacorp Ireland, and they sell it to the end customer at their cost so that Megacorp Distribution makes no profit. The product is made here and sold here but all of the US based entities of Megacorp post no profit in the US. Megacorp does pay taxes…to Ireland.

Megacorp can afford to structure themselves this way but Mom & Pop Products cannot. If you raise the US corporate tax rates, all you are doing is assuring Mom & Pop Products goes out of business because they cannot pay the US corporate tax rate and stay competitive against Megacorp who does not pay that rate. The higher the rate, the more dominant Megacorp becomes.

 

[fishonjazz]

That is not how the system works. They do not move the whole business to another country. Google, Apple, Microsoft, and all of Silicon Valley didn’t move to Ireland, but that is where their profits are booked.

Here is how the system works:

An American Megacorp creates a holding company based in the United States at 1209 North Orange Street, Wilmington DE 19801. That is the exact address of Google, Apple, GM, Walmart, Hillary Clinton Inc, Donald Trump Inc, and half a million other corporations.


View: https://medium.com/knowledge-stew/how-one-address-in-delaware-is-home-to-285-000-companies-32d963a2b706


The Megacorp Holding company owns three companies: Megacorp Manufacturing Inc., Megacorp Ireland Inc., and Megacorp Distribution Inc. All are based in the United States except for Megacorp Ireland Inc., which is based in Ireland.

Megacorp Manufacturing makes the product and they sell the product at their cost to Megacorp Ireland Inc. Megacorp Manufacturing makes no profit, and so pays no taxes.

Megacorp Ireland buys the product from Megacorp Manufacturing, and marks it up to make lots of profit. They pay taxes on the profit to Ireland, where they are based. Megacorp Ireland then sells the product to Megacorp Distribution Inc. Megacorp Ireland makes a ton of money, and they pay tax on that profit to Ireland.

Megacorp Distribution buys the product from Megacorp Ireland, and they sell it to the end customer at their cost so that Megacorp Distribution makes no profit. The product is made here and sold here but all of the US based entities of Megacorp post no profit in the US. Megacorp does pay taxes…to Ireland.

Megacorp can afford to structure themselves this way but Mom & Pop Products cannot. If you raise the US corporate tax rates, all you are doing is assuring Mom & Pop Products goes out of business because they cannot pay the US corporate tax rate and stay competitive against Megacorp who does not pay that rate. The higher the rate, the more dominant Megacorp becomes.

Hopefully that's another thing that gets cracked down on. Go after megacorp for that ******** as well

As for Mom and pop shop going out of business because they can't pay the corporate tax rate... Easy fix. Don't hit mom and pop shop with the corporate tax rate. Hit the wealthiest companies. Have a minimum profit amount or whatever (the proposals I have seen have a minimum amount attached to the proposal) that triggers the corporate tax rate.


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[Al-O-Meter]

Hopefully that's another thing that gets cracked down on. Go after megacorp for that ******** as well

As for Mom and pop shop going out of business because they can't pay the corporate tax rate... Easy fix. Don't hit mom and pop shop with the corporate tax rate. Hit the wealthiest companies. Have a minimum profit amount or whatever (the proposals I have seen have a minimum amount attached to the proposal) that triggers the corporate tax rate.

I've seen thresholds proposed on capital gains rates and that bonkers unrealized gains tax, but at this point I don't know where Kamala wants things to end up. In the past 24 hours she's actually thrown Joe Biden under the bus saying he was too hostile to business and has proposed her own lower tax rates.

Harris Tells the Business Community: I’m Friendlier Than Biden

The vice president on Wednesday proposed an increase on the capital gains tax that was far less than what President Biden has floated, one of several moves meant to win over business owners.

www.nytimes.com

Harris announces rare policy break with Biden on capital-gains tax rate

Vice President Kamala Harris will propose lower capital-gains tax rate increase than President Joe Biden in his annual budget in rare policy break.

www.usatoday.com

Kamala racing to lower taxes is new. I don't know where she's going with this.

 

[Safetydan]

I've seen thresholds proposed on capital gains rates and that bonkers unrealized gains tax, but at this point I don't know where Kamala wants things to end up. In the past 24 hours she's actually thrown Joe Biden under the bus saying he was too hostile to business and has proposed her own lower tax rates.

Harris Tells the Business Community: I’m Friendlier Than Biden

The vice president on Wednesday proposed an increase on the capital gains tax that was far less than what President Biden has floated, one of several moves meant to win over business owners.

www.nytimes.com

Harris announces rare policy break with Biden on capital-gains tax rate

Vice President Kamala Harris will propose lower capital-gains tax rate increase than President Joe Biden in his annual budget in rare policy break.

www.usatoday.com

Kamala racing to lower taxes is new. I don't know where she's going with this.

You and me both brother.

 

[PJF]

View: https://x.com/BuckSexton/status/1831711574945349707

 

[gandalfe]

Something else worth pointing out along these lines is that most of the time these changes tend to take aim at mega-corporations, not mom and pop shops. Thresholds often are at the $100 million mark for which corporations pay what. There is no reason we shouldn't be taxing mega-corps, especially those that are effectively oligopolies, hugely for the privilege of having not been regulated to allow them to get so big in the first place. Too big to fail needs to go away as that was proven to be entirely ********. If you make up 1/3 of the biggest companies controlling a single industry you should be paying max taxes, marginal corp rates on the order of 80%+. That is, after all, what ALL large corporations paid in the American economic hey-day of the 50's. And that did nothing to stifle anything. Everyone prospered. No reason not to go back to that after all.

I also think we need laws around stock buy-backs and other hand-outs to rich shareholders. A flat 50% tax on buy-backs would be good to start. If you want to do a $1.5 bill buy-back, you pay half that amount in tax straight up. So it costs you $1.5 bill + $750 mill, so a $1.5 bill buy-back costs $2.25 bill. I mean if you are reaping such windfall profits it must have been at the expense of either taxes or prices or wages. Only fair to balance the playing-field.

Oregon has a ballot measure this year, proposing 3% tax on businesses with revenues over $25,000,000, and giving every adult resident $1,600/yr.