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Trump Dictatorship and All Things Politics

fishonjazz said:
This is literally exactly what I posted.
I literally said that trump doesn't actually care about the fentanyl problem and that he is using it as a prop.
But if, (and since I don't trust trump at all, it's a big if) the trump administration is slowing the flow of fentanyl then that's a good thing because fetanyl is a horrible horrible drugs that kills lots of people.
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My exact post originally: You (thriller) are right that trump doesn't give a **** about fentanyl or drug addiction and is simply using it as a prop in his war against immigrants but sardines is also right that fentanyl is a problem.
 
Thriller post: oh noeessss! Fentanyl! I'm so scared!
Sardines response to that: Well fentanyl is a serious problem.
First sentence in thrillers response to sardines post: is it?
Sardines response: Yes. Fentanyl is a big problem. Many more addicts are dying than ever before and the reason is Fentanyl.

I'm not sure what the **** else you're talking about but it has nothing to do with the reality that Fentanyl is a problem.

Notice that no one is arguing about how great and altruistic the trump admin is. Simply arguing that fentanyl is a problem.

Thriller decided to argue with sardines and I point that fentanyl is a problem by bringing up a bunch of stuff that neither of us were arguing against.
 
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Bawse Dawg said:
Kinda agree with Thriller and Fotso here…

Feel like I’m missing something because the other side seems extremely passionate about how wrong they are. Obviously getting fentanyl off the streets is a good thing. But I definitely think the administration use it as a boogeyman (as someone put it) to amplify the border and immigration **** they do, and they care about that way more than low class drug addicts.

A good thing being done for the wrong reasons, maybe? I’m not super well informed so I defer to others but I can definitely see the point that’s being made
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The Thriller is acting like Fentanyl is a completely made up issue by Trump. My entire point was that it is an actual issue that affects many people in the U.S..

Thriller countered with this holier than thou he doesn't have an addiction to opiates so why should we worry about anyone who does. That seems pretty rich coming from a person who generally champions social benefit programs.

More than anyone else here on the left Thriller takes a Democrats represent all things that are good and Republicans represent all things that are evil stance.

My entire point was that Fentanyl is an actual issue that should be addressed to the best of our ability. Do I think closed borders and deportations will fix it? Nope. Was not anywhere close to my point.
 
Sardines said:
The Thriller is acting like Fentanyl is a completely made up issue by Trump. My entire point was that it is an actual issue that affects many people in the U.S..

Thriller countered with this holier than thou he doesn't have an addiction to opiates so why should we worry about anyone who does. That seems pretty rich coming from a person who generally champions social benefit programs.

More than anyone else here on the left Thriller takes a Democrats represent all things that are good and Republicans represent all things that are evil stance.

My entire point was that Fentanyl is an actual issue that should be addressed to the best of our ability. Do I think closed borders and deportations will fix it? Nope. Was not anywhere close to my point.
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I don't want to speak for him, but I think you're misunderstanding what he said. He was repeating conservative talking points sarcastically. Conservatives viewed crack addiction in black communities as a personal moral failure. It is the individual's fault they got addicted. It's the fault of their environment, lack of moral development, lack of good role models, inherent inferiority, etc. To conservatives, there was no one to blame but the addicts themselves, and the only remedy was to lock them up (see the tough on crime and DARE campaigns that were so prevalent in the 80s and 90s). But when it comes to a drug problem that affects white communities, suddenly, there is no more individual responsibility or moral failures. They're addicted because of Hispanics bringing in the drug across the southern border. The remedy is to stop those people from bringing in the drugs. It's a double standard that is being disingenuously exploited by Trump to advance his agenda.
 
Fosto said:
I don't want to speak for him, but I think you're misunderstanding what he said. He was repeating conservative talking points sarcastically. Conservatives viewed crack addiction in black communities as a personal moral failure. It is the individual's fault they got addicted. It's the fault of their environment, lack of moral development, lack of good role models, inherent inferiority, etc. To conservatives, there was no one to blame but the addicts themselves, and the only remedy was to lock them up (see the tough on crime and DARE campaigns that were so prevalent in the 80s and 90s). But when it comes to a drug problem that affects white communities, suddenly, there is no more individual responsibility or moral failures. They're addicted because of Hispanics bringing in the drug across the southern border. The remedy is to stop those people from bringing in the drugs. It's a double standard that is being disingenuously exploited by Trump to advance his agenda.
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Maybe I did misunderstand him initially. fishonjazz quoted the first three posts in this interaction. If I had misunderstood he could have pointed that out. Instead he goes on a holier than thou rant about how he doesn't do opiates. If THAT post was sarcasm than I certainly missed it.
 
Fosto said:
I don't want to speak for him, but I think you're misunderstanding what he said. He was repeating conservative talking points sarcastically. Conservatives viewed crack addiction in black communities as a personal moral failure. It is the individual's fault they got addicted. It's the fault of their environment, lack of moral development, lack of good role models, inherent inferiority, etc. To conservatives, there was no one to blame but the addicts themselves, and the only remedy was to lock them up (see the tough on crime and DARE campaigns that were so prevalent in the 80s and 90s). But when it comes to a drug problem that affects white communities, suddenly, there is no more individual responsibility or moral failures. They're addicted because of Hispanics bringing in the drug across the southern border. The remedy is to stop those people from bringing in the drugs. It's a double standard that is being disingenuously exploited by Trump to advance his agenda.
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Exactly this.
 
Sardines said:
Maybe I did misunderstand him initially. fishonjazz quoted the first three posts in this interaction. If I had misunderstood he could have pointed that out. Instead he goes on a holier than thou rant about how he doesn't do opiates. If THAT post was sarcasm than I certainly missed it.
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This.
Super easy to just say "I agree that fetanyl is a serious problem that needs to be addressed but trump doesn't actually care about the problem. He is just using it to defend his policies/attack minorities/make him look good/whatever sidebar tangent thriller wanted to go off about" or something like that and we all agree and move along.
Just weird that he never tried to clarify that he actually does see fentanyl as a problem when that literally the main thing you and I were posting about (and I had already acknowledged that trump doesn't actually care about it and is using it as a prop)
 
Fosto said:
I don't want to speak for him, but I think you're misunderstanding what he said. He was repeating conservative talking points sarcastically. Conservatives viewed crack addiction in black communities as a personal moral failure. It is the individual's fault they got addicted. It's the fault of their environment, lack of moral development, lack of good role models, inherent inferiority, etc. To conservatives, there was no one to blame but the addicts themselves, and the only remedy was to lock them up (see the tough on crime and DARE campaigns that were so prevalent in the 80s and 90s). But when it comes to a drug problem that affects white communities, suddenly, there is no more individual responsibility or moral failures. They're addicted because of Hispanics bringing in the drug across the southern border. The remedy is to stop those people from bringing in the drugs. It's a double standard that is being disingenuously exploited by Trump to advance his agenda.
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See how easy that was though?
You didn't even have to say anything like "ooohhh I'm so scared of fentanyl". "Is it even a problem really?".
And due to the length of the discussion there were multiple opportunities for explanation that were not used for some strange reason.
At one point I posted about how serious fentanyl is and how it would be a good thing if there was less of it.
He responds with "I completely disagree" and then goes off about a bunch of stuff that my post wasn't about. Makes it seem like he completely disagreed with my post about how bad fentanyl is. Much easier to say I agree with that but....... In response to my post.
I guess maybe he was just trolling sardines and I and we should have realized it sooner.
 
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fishonjazz said:
See how easy that was though?
You didn't even have to say anything like "ooohhh I'm so scared of fentanyl". "Is it even a problem really?".
And due to the length of the discussion there were multiple opportunities for explanation that were not used for some strange reason.
At one point I posted about how serious fentanyl is and how it would be a good thing if there was less of it.
He responds with "I completely disagree" and then goes off about a bunch of stuff that my post wasn't about. Makes it seem like he completely disagreed with my post about how bad fentanyl is. Much easier to say I agree with that but....... In response to my post.
I guess maybe he was just trolling sardines and I and we should have realized it sooner.
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Are we reading the same posts?

I wasn’t trolling nor did I disagree that fentanyl was bad. I disagreed with you in the post quoted where you said:

You are projecting what you think people think onto people.

Hard, addictive, destructive drugs are bad. Doesn't matter if it's fentanyl, crack, PCP, or whatever. Most people think this. Most people don't make it a black or white issue. If there is less fentanyl then that's a good thing for everyone regardless of who takes credit for the decrease or how the decrease of achieved.

To which I said:

I completely disagree. We just saw Trump win a second term by making drugs and race one of if not the primary issue. Our politics is dominated by how race is intertwined with drugs and crime. You might not be making it an issue by many Americans including the major political party and its propaganda apparatus sure are. The consistent message is: “Scary brown and black people living in the inner cities scary are doing and selling scary drugs and are bringing those scary drugs into your clean true American hardworking white not scary suburbs and rural areas. Be scared and afraid and vote for the white dictator who will fix everything and get rid of all the scary black drug addicts who eat your pets.”

And the way the crack epidemic of the 80s and 90s has been portrayed as opposed to opioids? Night and day difference. It’s impossible to ignore the racial issues that underly this. Just look at the incarceration rates of the two races. There’s a reason why these majority of our prisons are filled with poc and it’s not because they use drugs at a higher rate than whites… again, you might not see addiction as a racial issue but plenty of cops, judges, prosecutors, and politicians sure do

No where did I say that drug addiction wasn’t bad or important.

However, one of my primary points you and sardines have dismissed is that Most people do see drugs and race intertwined. It’s why the crack epidemic of the 80s and 90s was portrayed as an inner city black issue (and undeserving of government services or sympathy) and why opioids has been seen as a rural white issue (completely deserving of government services and so much sympathy). The secret brown horde is bringing fentanyl into destroy our white communities. It’s pretty clear that some of you have ignored these vital points.

So drug addiction is bad. But the way it’s consistently framed in this country, as a problem caused by POC and immigration, needs to change. Continuing to vote for the strong man and political party that demonizes minorities, increases wars on “drugs” through mass incarceration, stronger “borders”, and cutting social safety nets is a dumb one to combat drugs.

If I didn’t think drugs were a problem and bad, why would I have posted this link in my first post?

View: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:6m7rbdgaz5vyg4bnbefi7kh6/post/3lnzphrac5k2p?ref_src=embed
 
The Thriller said:
Are we reading the same posts?

I wasn’t trolling nor did I disagree that fentanyl was bad. I disagreed with you in the post quoted where you said:

You are projecting what you think people think onto people.

Hard, addictive, destructive drugs are bad. Doesn't matter if it's fentanyl, crack, PCP, or whatever. Most people think this. Most people don't make it a black or white issue. If there is less fentanyl then that's a good thing for everyone regardless of who takes credit for the decrease or how the decrease of achieved.

To which I said:

I completely disagree. We just saw Trump win a second term by making drugs and race one of if not the primary issue. Our politics is dominated by how race is intertwined with drugs and crime. You might not be making it an issue by many Americans including the major political party and its propaganda apparatus sure are. The consistent message is: “Scary brown and black people living in the inner cities scary are doing and selling scary drugs and are bringing those scary drugs into your clean true American hardworking white not scary suburbs and rural areas. Be scared and afraid and vote for the white dictator who will fix everything and get rid of all the scary black drug addicts who eat your pets.”

And the way the crack epidemic of the 80s and 90s has been portrayed as opposed to opioids? Night and day difference. It’s impossible to ignore the racial issues that underly this. Just look at the incarceration rates of the two races. There’s a reason why these majority of our prisons are filled with poc and it’s not because they use drugs at a higher rate than whites… again, you might not see addiction as a racial issue but plenty of cops, judges, prosecutors, and politicians sure do

No where did I say that drug addiction wasn’t bad or important.

However, one of my primary points you and sardines have dismissed is that Most people do see drugs and race intertwined. It’s why the crack epidemic of the 80s and 90s was portrayed as an inner city black issue (and undeserving of government services or sympathy) and why opioids has been seen as a rural white issue (completely deserving of government services and so much sympathy). The secret brown horde is bringing fentanyl into destroy our white communities. It’s pretty clear that some of you have ignored these vital points.

So drug addiction is bad. But the way it’s consistently framed in this country, as a problem caused by POC and immigration, needs to change. Continuing to vote for the strong man and political party that demonizes minorities, increases wars on “drugs” through mass incarceration, stronger “borders”, and cutting social safety nets is a dumb one to combat drugs.

If I didn’t think drugs were a problem and bad, why would I have posted this link in my first post?

View: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:6m7rbdgaz5vyg4bnbefi7kh6/post/3lnzphrac5k2p?ref_src=embed
Click to expand...

More cherry picking. Or maybe trolling. You dont discuss the part where you say "ooohhh I'm so scared of fentanyl". "Is it even a problem really?".
Again, when you quote my post maybe point out the part you completely disagree with. You can go into my quoted post and remove parts that you do agree in order to highlight the parts you disagree with. Then I know that you dont disagree with the entire post (like the parts where im talking about fetanyl being a bad and dangerous and deadly drug) and I will be certain what exactly it is that you are disagreeing with. In this case apparently its that I said most people think that all deadly bad drugs are deadly bad drugs and most people dont see that as a black white issue. Which I still believe to be true. Certain people certainly do, like trump for instance. But i think most people simply agree that hard dangerous deadly drugs are bad regardless of what the skin color of the person doing them is.

Thank you finally saying in this post that "drug addiction is bad." Now I know for certain that you agree with that statement and we can move on I guess. Couldn't really know for certain until now due to the posts that made it seem that you felt otherwise.
 
I don't just completely reject tariffs.

What I reject is using them in the stupidest most self destructive way with no deliberation or clear objective intent.

Tariffs on... J/K tariffs off. Haha got 'em, tariffs back on! Okay well not today but probably soon. Okay here's a list of worldwide tariffs based on nothing more than the slinkiness of my farts multiplied by the random spinning of a color wheel.

If a smart person was doing tariffs smartly I would not object. But what we have is an idiot doing tariffs idiotically and it is causing problems.
 
fishonjazz said:
More cherry picking. Or maybe trolling. You dont discuss the part where you say "ooohhh I'm so scared of fentanyl". "Is it even a problem really?".
Again, when you quote my post maybe point out the part you completely disagree with. You can go into my quoted post and remove parts that you do agree in order to highlight the parts you disagree with. Then I know that you dont disagree with the entire post (like the parts where im talking about fetanyl being a bad and dangerous and deadly drug) and I will be certain what exactly it is that you are disagreeing with. In this case apparently its that I said most people think that all deadly bad drugs are deadly bad drugs and most people dont see that as a black white issue. Which I still believe to be true. Certain people certainly do, like trump for instance. But i think most people simply agree that hard dangerous deadly drugs are bad regardless of what the skin color of the person doing them is.

Thank you finally saying in this post that "drug addiction is bad." Now I know for certain that you agree with that statement and we can move on I guess. Couldn't really know for certain until now due to the posts that made it seem that you felt otherwise.
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How is it trolling? And why? I’ve been a part of this board since 2004. What do I get out of trolling?

I’m sorry I didn’t address every single point In your post. Maybe sometimes I don’t address every point because I don’t disagree with them? I’ll try to do better next time to avoid confusion.

As far as people not seeing drugs being intertwined with race? That’s just not true. And you don’t have to be a trumper either. The way the crack epidemic has been depicted vs opioid, mass incarceration, the “war on drugs”, and the way drugs and the border are discussed really makes it pretty ****ing obvious how much race matters regarding drugs. Like you have to work harder to ignore this than to see it.
 
Sardines said:
I don't just completely reject tariffs.

What I reject is using them in the stupidest most self destructive way with no deliberation or clear objective intent.

Tariffs on... J/K tariffs off. Haha got 'em, tariffs back on! Okay well not today but probably soon. Okay here's a list of worldwide tariffs based on nothing more than the slinkiness of my farts multiplied by the random spinning of a color wheel.

If a smart person was doing tariffs smartly I would not object. But what we have is an idiot doing tariffs idiotically and it is causing problems.
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If the United States had waged a war against China in 2024 and lost. And China were making a “treaty of Versailles” like demands on the United States. How would they look different than what we’re currently doing to ourselves?
1. China would probably force us to severely shrink or stop our tech and science investments.
2. China would probably levy tariffs on us, extracting a heavy toll on consumer prices. They’d be the ones saying, “sorry America, since you lost this war your Christmas is gonna be pretty scant. Your kids will only receive 2 dolls instead of 30.”
3. And they’d probably mess with our relationships, making inroads with strategic partners like Japan and South Korea while alienating us from our closest allies.
4. They’d work to diminish our influence in Eastern Europe and Africa. Making us isolated.

How is this any different than what Trump has done to us?
 
I’d love for a trumper to explain what the reasoning is behind the tariffs. I’ve heard Trump say:

1. Tariffs will replace the federal income tax. Meaning that they’ll be permanent. This is an incredibly regressive tax, hurting consumers and especially low income workers the hardest.
2. Tariffs are to punish countries, like China. So medium to long term? Odd logic, since china’s political system isn’t reliant on popular support and the Chinese most certainly can endure lower standards of living over America. Plus, if we wanted to punish China, why are we also waging wars against Mexico and Canada at the same time?
3. Tariffs will bring back jobs. But who wants to screw iPhones together for Pennies? The Chinese firms that do this have suicide nets up in their buildings for a reason. I know your office job might not be ideal but it sure beats the sucky manufacturing jobs Trump wants to bring back. Plus, it’ll take years for these factories to reset and once Trump is gone, what’s preventing President AOC from getting rid of these tariffs in 2029?

A. So are they permanent?
B. Who are we trying to punish? China? The world? How effective can we really be fighting against… everyone at the same time?
C. What’s stopping the next congress or president from just going back to the pre2025 economy, back when our economy was actually growing instead of shrinking?

www.theguardian.com

Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

In an extract from his new book, Brian Merchant reveals how he gained access to Longhua, the vast complex where iPhones are made and where, in 2010, unhappy workers started killing themselves
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Sardines said:
The Thriller is acting like Fentanyl is a completely made up issue by Trump. My entire point was that it is an actual issue that affects many people in the U.S..

Thriller countered with this holier than thou he doesn't have an addiction to opiates so why should we worry about anyone who does. That seems pretty rich coming from a person who generally champions social benefit programs.

More than anyone else here on the left Thriller takes a Democrats represent all things that are good and Republicans represent all things that are evil stance.

My entire point was that Fentanyl is an actual issue that should be addressed to the best of our ability. Do I think closed borders and deportations will fix it? Nope. Was not anywhere close to my point.
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Hollier than thou? You compared me to PJF and claimed that everyone consumes propaganda.

:rolleyes:

Do you stand by this or want to retract that?

My entire point is that fentanyl isn’t ever addressed; it’s used as a cudgel by those who fear monger drugs the most, to hurt POC and communities. My original post contained an article which criticized the Trump administration’s cutting of drug recovery therapy and Medicaid. So maybe before you attack me again, you give that article a quick looksie. Here, I’ll even repost it for your convenience.

View: https://bsky.app/profile/crampell.bsky.social/post/3lnzphrac5k2p


One last thing, this was not a good experience. I would suggest before you come after me with your knives you actually read what I say instead of cherry picking little things to argue about. I think I’ve earned more credibility and good faith than you’ve expressed over the last few days that I care greatly about American lives and liberal causes. Im not one of the millions cheering on or turning a blind eye to the immorality that Trump and his fascist regime are doing to millions of Americans.

The fact that other posters got what I was saying which you and fish let your emotions get in the way of *actually reading and understanding* what I was saying, shows that for whatever reason, you two just refused to give me any credit or benefit of doubt. Which is odd considering my extensive liberal posting history, typically citing scholarly articles and credible sources. Not… big balls69 or Russian puppets, Benny Johnson.
 
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