Could the Jazz Milk Washington if The Ace Saga Sours?

[KqWIN]

There's a dramatic difference between it not being "all about the money" (not my argument) and it being so not about the money at all that a $13M paycut is worth forcing yourself to a franchise like the Pelicans.

I'm just trying to figure out in what universe that's looking out for a client's best interests. Certainly not this one.

It’s simple. The universe where a player prefers to go to WAS. That is this universe.

You’re talking past me. I am not defending the decision to prefer WAS, I am defending the act of steering an agent towards a preferable destination. Those are two different things.

 

[MT Steve]

It’s simple. The universe where a player prefers to go to WAS. That is this universe.

You’re talking past me. I am not defending the decision to prefer WAS, I am defending the act of steering an agent towards a preferable destination. Those are two different things.

Maybe he's just good at acting, but Ace seemed pretty happy and excited when he got drafted, and during his interviews after. It's hard for me to reconcile that same person with somebody who'd ask his agent to tank his stock and cost him $13M to get him to Washington or New Orleans, but what do I know.

 

[David Stern]

You have no idea why I have “this energy”. But keep on defending this guy that is just doing right by his client or whatever you think… it won’t age well.

I very much hope this ends with getting this guy out of this kid’s life

 

[KqWIN]

Maybe he's just good at acting, but Ace seemed pretty happy and excited when he got drafted, and during his interviews after. It's hard for me to reconcile that same person with somebody who'd ask his agent to tank his stock and cost him $13M to get him to Washington or New Orleans, but what do I know.

You’re talking past me once again. You keep mentioning the money. First of all, you realize that’s less money for his agent. But more importantly, it’s irrelevant to what I’m saying. Can I stress that one more time? The money is irrelevant if the preferred destination is still the preferred destination.

When I say he is doing right by his client, I do not mean his choice of destination was correct. You could say doing right by your client means picking the right destination. Totally fair, but not what I’ve been talking about. Weighing the value of money, geography, and everything else related to a destination is a deeply personal decision and I don’t care to make a comment on it except that from the basketball side I’d prefer PHI. If you noticed, I have not once said that the decision to WAS/NOP/BKN was correct.

What I mean by “doing right by his client” is doing everything possible to go to the preferred destination regardless of why it is preferred. If you cannot distinguish those two things, there is no point in continuing this discussion. None of comments have been talking about why WAS is actually better than UTA, but my comments have been centered around the act of steering a player to a certain destination. And I’ll stand by that. I think that is the duty of an agent and it happens year after year.

 

[MT Steve]

You’re talking past me once again. You keep mentioning the money. First of all, you realize that’s less money for his agent. But more importantly, it’s irrelevant to what I’m saying. Can I stress that one more time? The money is irrelevant if the preferred destination is still the preferred destination.

When I say he is doing right by his client, I do not mean his choice of destination was correct. You could say doing right by your client means picking the right destination. Totally fair, but not what I’ve been talking about. Weighing the value of money, geography, and everything else related to a destination is a deeply personal decision and I don’t care to make a comment on it except that from the basketball side I’d prefer PHI. If you noticed, I have not once said that the decision to WAS/NOP/BKN was correct.

What I mean by “doing right by his client” is doing everything possible to go to the preferred destination regardless of why it is preferred. If you cannot distinguish those two things, there is no point in continuing this discussion. None of comments have been talking about why WAS is actually better than UTA, but my comments have been centered around the act of steering a player to a certain destination. And I’ll stand by that. I think that is the duty of an agent and it happens year after year.

It feels like you're having an extremely difficult time differentating between what my argument is not (It's all about the money), and what my argument is ($13M holds a lot of weight). I don't care that you keep stressing that $13M is irrelevant, because that's just straight up false.

Unless you're making the argument that you believe Ace told his agent, "I don't care about the money, just make sure you get me to Washington, New Orleans, or Brooklyn." If that happened, then sure, he's doing right by his client.

Judging by his reaction when he was drafted, and his interviews after, I just simply don't believe that happened, And judging by Sarah Todd's recent post:


View: https://bsky.app/profile/nbasarah.bsky.social/post/3lskt5gqugc2p


on top of the fact that the dude isn't even a certified agent, on top of the fact that he's an ex-convict for selling cocaine to kids, I think it just might be possible that this guy isn't quite on the up-and-up on this one.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

The naivety of NBA fans is astonishing. How many times do we have to go through this?

1. Player X starts pouting and acting out, demanding a swift relocation to his preferred big market team
2. Fans: "That's it, dude's getting blacklisted league wide, nobody's signing a troublemaking locker room cancer, or he'll find himself in New Orleans or something, he'll lose a ton of money"
3. Three weeks go by...
4. Player X appears in the Lakers starting lineup and soon signs a lucrative multiyear deal
5. Fans: "What the hell just happened?"

 

[stitches]

You have no idea why I have “this energy”. But keep on defending this guy that is just doing right by his client or whatever you think… it won’t age well.

Did he take money from a specific team in order to guide Ace there or something?

 

[stitches]

It’s simple. The universe where a player prefers to go to WAS. That is this universe.

You’re talking past me. I am not defending the decision to prefer WAS, I am defending the act of steering an agent towards a preferable destination. Those are two different things.

I think even if he prefers to go to Washington this is hardly the best way to serve your player's interests. The best way is to make WAS trade up for him, not to tank your guy's stock so bad he loses 13m on his first big payday.

 

[KqWIN]

It feels like you're having an extremely difficult time differentating between what my argument is not (It's all about the money), and what my argument is ($13M holds a lot of weight). I don't care that you keep stressing that $13M is irrelevant, because that's just straight up false.

Unless you're making the argument that you believe Ace told his agent, "I don't care about the money, just make sure you get me to Washington, New Orleans, or Brooklyn." If that happened, then sure, he's doing right by his client.

Judging by his reaction when he was drafted, and his interviews after, I just simply don't believe that happened, And judging by Sarah Todd's recent post:


View: https://bsky.app/profile/nbasarah.bsky.social/post/3lskt5gqugc2p


on top of the fact that the dude isn't even a certified agent, on top of the fact that he's an ex-convict for selling cocaine to kids, I think it just might be possible that this guy isn't quite on the up-and-up on this one.

Yeah, you’re unable to differentiate the two things. This conversation is going nowhere.

I fully understand what you’re saying and I’m trying to tell you I’m taking about something different. You are speaking on the decision to identify WAS/NOP/BKN as best. I am not talking about the decision to pick one team vs another. If you want to have that conversation, have it with yourself. I’m not talking about that, and my post you initially replied to wasn’t talking about that either.

 

[KqWIN]

How can I put this simply. I’m obviously failing miserably, so maybe less words is best?

Omar Cooper = Bad

And

WAS/NOP/BKN as preferred destination = Bad

But

Trying to get player in preferred destination = Agent Job

 

[Tremendous Upside]

How can I put this simply. I’m obviously failing miserably, so maybe less words is best?

Omar Cooper = Bad

And

WAS/NOP/BKN as preferred destination = Bad

But

Trying to get player in preferred destination = Agent Job

Also: sometimes things happen in the league even though they're not "right". They might even be "evil". Teams have to decide how much of a headache they're willing to accept. I have no idea where the limit is with the Jazz/Ace.

Personally, I've rarely seen this many red flags. Do people really look at this circus and say "Yeah, this is our potential franchise player"? To me it's absolutely clear he doesn't want to be in Utah.

 

[stitches]

Also: sometimes things happen in the league even though they're not "right". They might even be "evil". Teams have to decide how much of a headache they're willing to accept. I have no idea where the limit is with the Jazz/Ace.

Personally, I've rarely seen this many red flags. Do people really look at this circus and say "Yeah, this is our potential franchise player"? To me it's absolutely clear he doesn't want to be in Utah.

I think pretending like those are not red flags is not ideal for us. I think they are... The Jazz just seem to think that all the hassle is worth it.

I think the worst part of it is not tha this agent seems like a drug dealing knuckleead. It's not that he doesn't seem to have wanted to be drafted here. It's that Ace has chosen to surround himself with this type of people and has allowed them to influence his life and career. This is the biggest red flag. Because, the Jazz can ignore his wish to not be here and draft him. The Jazz can probably flex their muscle and their leverage and make him "shut up and dribble" for the time being. Hell... we can even probably do enough as an organization and a fanbase to make him enjoy his time in Utah. What we won't be able to do is change who he surrounds himself with and what the next thing those around him convince him is best for him...

Our only hope is... as he matures and grows up he starts making better decisions about the people around him and about what's best for him long term.

 

[MT Steve]

Yeah, you’re unable to differentiate the two things. This conversation is going nowhere.

I fully understand what you’re saying and I’m trying to tell you I’m taking about something different. You are speaking on the decision to identify WAS/NOP/BKN as best. I am not talking about the decision to pick one team vs another. If you want to have that conversation, have it with yourself. I’m not talking about that, and my post you initially replied to wasn’t talking about that either.

You do not fully understand what I'm saying. I'm not speaking on the decision to identify WAS/NOP/BKN as best - I'm stating how I don't believe Ace told his agent "Get me to WAS/NOP/BKN no matter the amount of money it costs."

How can I put this simply. I’m obviously failing miserably, so maybe less words is best?

Omar Cooper = Bad

And

WAS/NOP/BKN as preferred destination = Bad

But

Trying to get player in preferred destination = Agent Job

How can I put this simply.

If Ace said "I don't care about money, just get me to Washington, New Orleans, or Brooklyn", fully understanding how much it would cost him, then his agent is doing his job.

Ace seeming happy and excited after being drafted and in his interviews makes me believe Ace did not indicate to his agent that he was so desperate to get to one of those other locations he'd be fine giving up $13M.

 

[KqWIN]

I think pretending like those are not red flags is not ideal for us. I think they are... The Jazz just seem to think that all the hassle is worth it.

I think the worst part of it is not tha this agent seems like a drug dealing knuckleead. It's not that he doesn't seem to have wanted to be drafted here. It's that Ace has chosen to surround himself with this type of people and has allowed them to influence his life and career. This is the biggest red flag. Because, the Jazz can ignore his wish to not be here and draft him. The Jazz can probably flex their muscle and their leverage and make him "shut up and dribble" for the time being. Hell... we can even probably do enough as an organization and a fanbase to make him enjoy his time in Utah. What we won't be able to do is change who he surrounds himself with and what the next thing those around him convince him is best for him...

Our only hope is... as he matures and grows up he starts making better decisions about the people around him and about what's best for him long term.

I do think Cooper is more of a long term concern. Having the wrong people around a young player can harm their development. I don’t think Cooper is good for him.

Speaking to the title of this thread and thinking about moving Ace….yeah I don’t think so. Agents have continuously done “all they could” to place a player. “All they could” is different when you’re talking about a fake agent like Cooper, and that can cause a bigger headache. But fortunately for us power structure is still the same. You can’t do ****, and that’s why the Jazz didn’t care. Just because the agent has nothing to lose and no shame does not mean they actually have more tangible power.

But yea, there is going to be an ongoing headache and concern about his development as long as he has bad people around him. This whole thing is scarier for Ace’s actual development on the court.

 

[KqWIN]

How can I put this simply.

If Ace said "I don't care about money, just get me to Washington, New Orleans, or Brooklyn", fully understanding how much it would cost him, then his agent is doing his job.

Ace seeming happy and excited after being drafted and in his interviews makes me believe Ace did not indicate to his agent that he was so desperate to get to one of those other locations he'd be fine giving up $13M.

So the first part is exactly what I’ve been saying this whole time, so thank you for actually acknowledging it for the first time.

As far as the second part, I don’t really care to speculate if the preferred destinations were actually his preferred destinations. Doesn’t interest me and I’ve never spoken to that.

 

[MT Steve]

So the first part is exactly what I’ve been saying this whole time, so thank you for actually acknowledging it for the first time.

It was actually the third time.

As far as the second part, I don’t really care to speculate if the preferred destinations were actually his preferred destinations. Doesn’t interest me and I’ve never spoken to that.

Then you completely misunderstand why everybody here has a problem with his agent.

Nobody who has a problem with his agent is making the argument that he's doing exclusively what Ace himself wants him to do - the argument has always been that his agent has been the one making the decisions as to which destinations would be best for Ace, financial consequences be damned.

 

[KqWIN]

It was actually the third time.


Then you completely misunderstand why everybody here has a problem with his agent.

Nobody who has a problem with his agent is making the argument that he's doing exclusively what Ace himself wants him to do - the argument has always been that his agent has been the one making the decisions as to which destinations would be best for Ace, financial consequences be damned.

I don’t misunderstand why people have a problem with his agent. You guys have been talking over my point over and over and informing me as to why you hate him. I got it. That’s not what I’ve been trying to discuss. Understanding why people hate Cooper has nothing to do with the point of my post, but you guys have been sure to tell me about it!

Meanwhile, I’ve been trying to hammer in this point that getting a player to where he wants to go is part of the job. The methods are atypical because he’s a fake agent, but the attempt to place a player is not. The power structure between team/agent is the same regardless so I expect the outcome to be the same as other attempts. That’s what the post you replied to is about. It’s not important to bring up because I think people are hating on him for it. I brought it up to say that it will end up the same way.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I do think Cooper is more of a long term concern. Having the wrong people around a young player can harm their development. I don’t think Cooper is good for him.

Speaking to the title of this thread and thinking about moving Ace….yeah I don’t think so. Agents have continuously done “all they could” to place a player. “All they could” is different when you’re talking about a fake agent like Cooper, and that can cause a bigger headache. But fortunately for us power structure is still the same. You can’t do ****, and that’s why the Jazz didn’t care. Just because the agent has nothing to lose and no shame does not mean they actually have more tangible power.

But yea, there is going to be an ongoing headache and concern about his development as long as he has bad people around him. This whole thing is scarier for Ace’s actual development on the court.

The power structure exists, but as I pointed out above, sometimes major headaches matter more... and teams just give up.

 

[George W]

Who is Ace Bailey's agent? Meet Omar Cooper, the mystery man behind NBA Draft concerns | Sporting News

Bailey's agent has been at the center of scrutiny throughout the process.

www.sportingnews.com

Here's a great read about Ace's agent. An unlicensed agent that served 6 months for drug violations, has an attempted murder charge, and has weapon violations Fire that dude yesterday,

This is some dog whistle ****. Those charges were a billion years ago, most were dropped except the cocaine (who gives a ****), and he has spent the last several years running basketball teams for boys and girls, and getting them connected from high school to college basketball teams.

Sports media *loves* going after non-professional sports representation. Look at the ******** Lamar Jackson had to deal with. And it makes sense -- the whole construct/viability of agents is premised on conveying that you should just a professional to handle your business, not family or important mentors. Given the connections between agents and sports journalism, you can count on the journalism to absolutely **** on Ace Bailey for the next few days for daring to not giving a cut of his contract to agents who did nothing for him in contrast to what Omar Cooper has done.

I agree with @KqWIN -- this agent tried his very best to put his client in what was foreseen as the best situation (Washington). And guess what-- if we didn't have such a team menaces running our FO, they were gonna pull it off. Now there is a situation where folks are confirming that there is no trade up option, realizing that 'yes, Utah wants the kid and no, they're not gonna give him up for nothing', and it will conclude with Ace's appearance in summer league next week. This will all blow over, and have minimal bearing on Ace's prospects as a basketball player.

You can say all you want re: wanting to play in NOLA vs Utah. Everyone here is forgetting the ******** Donovan Mitchell had to navigate as a black star playing in Salt Lake City. A move to Utah for years, like we're talking 7 years, takes some adjustment, some time to ensure that there is no other alternatives. Players having this amount of power is tough for fans but ultimately best for the players, which frankly deserve any power they can command. They are the league.

- George

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is some dog whistle ****. Those charges were a billion years ago, most were dropped except the cocaine (who gives a ****), and he has spent the last several years running basketball teams for boys and girls, and getting them connected from high school to college basketball teams.

Sports media *loves* going after non-professional sports representation. Look at the ******** Lamar Jackson had to deal with. And it makes sense -- the whole construct/viability of agents is premised on conveying that you should just a professional to handle your business, not family or important mentors. Given the connections between agents and sports journalism, you can count on the journalism to absolutely **** on Ace Bailey for the next few days for daring to not giving a cut of his contract to agents who did nothing for him in contrast to what Omar Cooper has done.

I agree with @KqWIN -- this agent tried his very best to put his client in what was foreseen as the best situation (Washington). And guess what-- if we didn't have such a team menaces running our FO, they were gonna pull it off. Now there is a situation where folks are confirming that there is no trade up option, realizing that 'yes, Utah wants the kid and no, they're not gonna give him up for nothing', and it will conclude with Ace's appearance in summer league next week. This will all blow over, and have minimal bearing on Ace's prospects as a basketball player.

You can say all you want re: wanting to play in NOLA vs Utah. Everyone here is forgetting the ******** Donovan Mitchell had to navigate as a black star playing in Salt Lake City. A move to Utah for years, like we're talking 7 years, takes some adjustment, some time to ensure that there is no other alternatives. Players having this amount of power is tough for fans but ultimately best for the players, which frankly deserve any power they can command. They are the league.

- George

Yeah the people who keep bringing up the cocaine stuff/jail time are being gross