homeytennis
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I'm surprised that AA didn't trot out that old chestnut: "We did this for the best interests of the team."
Utah Jazz Media Day (live stream)
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I think the Warriors have fumbled the JK situation (and are just doing him wrong)....but at least they are in a position to play hardball. He's played poorly and he has no market. Kessler played well and many teams will have space to make a move. And as as always, got to remember these are human beings. I don't think Hayward leaves if the Jazz didn't try to squeeze him years earlier. The "As long as I play for this team" type of comments just make me feel like Kessler is already looking for a way out.
And who knows, he could have asked for something completely ridiculous. But given the history and noise around the situation I think the Jazz are just trying to hardball and I don't think is the time to do it.
this is what worries me. cap space is only slightly better than useless
HeatCheck
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Yeah I noticed that too..
I kinda get it. Kessler will never be a star in this league due to his offensive shortcomings. I'm a fan but in honesty there hasn't been a lot to cheer for the past few seasons. Even if he reaches his peak is Kessler a top 10 center? Add in the fact most teams have financial flexibility issues and I can see why they are waiting on an extension considering they seem to be miles apart at this point. With RFA the current team holds all the cards.
My only concern is they did hold Kessler back a bit last season limiting his minutes while actively trying to lose. I can't imagine the Kessler team is all too happy about that.
They've already gotten themselves into a pickle with the Lauri contract so it makes sense on the Jazz's part to just wait it out especially if they aren't all in on Walker Kessler.
The Jazz have a habit of being late in realizing changes to the landscape. I think they are making a lot of erroneous assumptions about how to navigate the changing market in the era of the 2nd apron after totally whiffing on that point with Lauri and overpaying him.
There is a space between throwing the whole bag at a borderline all-star and insulting an above average starter with repeated low-ball offers.
It's still hard to be too critical of the front office when we don't know what Kessler was asking for. I think the majority of us were good if we could get the deal done at $25M, but if he was asking for $30M+ then I think there would have been concerns that the FO was making a mistake as well.
With Kessler, there may be some debate about what a rim-protecting, rim-running center is worth. The Jazz moved on from Gobert in large part because Ainge didn't think that type of player should be maxed or near-maxed. Jarrett Allen might be one comparable, and his second contract has been at $20M/year for 5 years. He now has an extension at an average of $30M/year that will kick in a year from now. Myles Turner is at $25M/year as a big that can space the floor as well as defend the rim.
The new apron rules really punish teams for overpaying their 4th and 5th best players.
FWIW, I think 25M was the magic number on this deal. If either side was not willing to go to 25M then they were not being reasonable.
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I doubt there are any hardlines but the difference between 25 and 30 won't be a big issues and even at 30 you can make it cap friendly by having it descend. Over 5 years you have a lot of options. When the wiz, hornets, Lakers, or any other team offer him 35-40+ with 3+1 language the asset goes "Poof"! New cap, old cap etc. the issue is not how you pay your 4th or 5th best player... its if they are good enough to justify the salary.
If the Jazz are at 20 and Walker is at 30 and they can't figure that out... its a failure all the way around. One side likely bears the brunt of the decision. 5/135M where you start it north of 30M and work your way down over 5 years will provide excess value when you really need it.
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Anywhere from 22-28M is the "deal zone" figure you could do 25M with incentives and get it locked up. Like 25M with 1M incentive for 70 games played and another 1M for all defensive team type of thing.
What's the deadline to ink an extension?
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I believe start of the regular season.
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this is one of the areas I think some teams full of professionals have been really bad. It will end up being a big theme of the pod we do tomorrow. Its not quite the obvious Hayward landscape where the cap was going to go up like 50% or some nonsense so you almost couldn't sign a bad contract... but this year's frozen market is not going to be repeated next year. This isn't like the new normal.
Alright, here we go. Good luck, readers:
Utah Jazz Media Day as Witnessed by FLC with Stream-of-Consciousness Reflections Included
1. Ainge the Younger and Ry-Guy
Ainge the Younger seems surprisingly competent. I'm glad we've locked him in - he seems liked and trusted by everyone in the org. Seems like he has vision, which isn't a surprise given his father.
He also sits like he has a six foot retractable metal rod shoved up his ******* and straight up the spinal cord, but also tilted like the axis of the Earth.
His chin movements also convince me that when he toasts a wine glass, he raises that pinky finger with the best of 'em.
But Ainge the Younger loves basketball like Ainge the Elder loves basketball. Cool to see that.
I appreciate Ry-Guy. He loves Utah. He's a great ambassador. He clearly values the evolution of Utah and the Jazz as a more important and lasting priority than his own money. And he's a strong enough manager to get out of his own way and let the basketball minds make decisions. We're lucky.
That said, his vibe reminds me of Kendall in Succession rapping in the backseat of his chauffeured car. I also suspect he's a Drake fan, which... lame.
Just because you're rich doesn't mean you should dress like a 20 year old hungover in Vegas about to board the flight home. That goes for Zuckerberg and it goes for Smith. In a parallel universe, Ry-Guy never got into tech and is drinking Four Lokos outside a 7-11 in Sandy blasting Toosie Slide.
I do wonder if the plan all along was for Danny to tear it down and have his son come in to build it up. Prolly not, but man I wish the beat reporters could get us the full, actual story here.
2. Will
This dude is a great coach. His answers were so ****ing good. That Shakespearean monologue he gave about the fans and players growing and earning together and the community's responsibility to raise these young men well - holy ****. That was a Hollywood quality response, I'd listen to that any day over the scene in Rudy. Rare you see such emotional competence and maturity in a guy that gives off Frat Social Chair vibes. It's clear why the players love him. This was Ainge and Smith's best move so far - even beyond the haul they got for Gobert.
It's going to piss people off, including me, during the season but his answer here on earned minutes and a meritocracy culture makes sense, and I see why he and the front office feels it's essential for winning. That's part of the difference between us and a Washington. We also don't offer predatory 'agents' jobs and money to route their client to us.
3. Kevin Love
Dude didn't want to move, spoke to Ryan and the Ainges, decided to come over. Agree with earlier speculation in this thread that the apron made a lot of change. But I think the Ryan and Ainge pitch went something like this: "We've got an incredibly talented 4/5 that we think might be something. He idolizes you. What are your plans after this contract? Oh, coaching? Let's make this a steady slide into player development - Utah is amazing for families." That's my hunch. He's going to be a great mentor to everyone, but Kyle especially.
Dazed and Confused was hilarious. Even more hilarious was the moment after where he realizes he just made a pedophile joke and smiled his way through it hoping no one would notice. Gold.
I wonder what would happen if you locked Kevin Love and the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives women in a house for 48 hours.
4. Lauri
Ainge the Younger, Lauri, and everyone on JazzFanz knows that if they get the offer they want, which I imagine is similar to Rudy or Donovan-level trades, Lauri is out. But I think they're committed to keeping him until they get what they want.
Seems like the vibes were pretty bad last year, which I suspect is a major part of the reason of the trades that happened this summer, even as lopsided as they were.
I think he has the Hayward issue where he isn't going to ever be the Alpha leader. Unlike Hayward, he's loyal and decent. Unlike Hayward and Hotnickkkky, he also doesn't have a level 300 wizard in World of Warcraft.
5. Taylor Hendricks
He's my new favorite.
What a great kid.
He sounds confident and fully recovered and trusting his body. His teammates love him and are rooting for him. I hope more than anything he has a completely badass year.
His answer on defense was awesome. Weird seeing that baby face on the massive biceps. Someone put him on the Karl Malone diet.
6. Jusuf Nurkic
I understood a quarter of what he said. He looks like a sad boy that got coal instead of presents. That said he's on board with the year.
7. Keyonte
Alright, let's get a little spicier. This one was a mixed bag for me:
He's gotten more mature, which is good.
The Dallas thing was clearly really meaningful, amazing for culture, and a great move on his part, also good.
He said he was going to be a leader, he's acting like it, also good.
But I think he's worried. I think he knows what we know about his numbers and his defense. The vibe I'm getting is he's not convinced that the work that he's put in is going to be enough to make him an NBA level player, let alone a starter. He knows this is a critical year - reinforced by Andy's questioning. (Also, Larsen with the hard hitting questions all night - I thought he was going to make Kessler cry, more on that **** show later.) How much of this 'it's about we, not me' stuff is, sure, something he believes but also a signal that he's valuable in ways off the court.
Hope he has a big year and transforms into a starting level guard. Locke is optimistic. I still believe and he's still young.
Did he sound and look stoned? Maybe it's just focus but he wasn't nearly as chipper and articulate as last year.
8. Kessler
Ok, here we go. I think Kessler is on his way out - I expect a trade at the deadline if they can juice up the Lakers - I'm sure there's a market that may even meet the Jazz's asking price, but they need to wait for teams to encounter struggles during the season and believe that Kessler is the answer to them.
Sounds like the Jazz fully declined to offer him an extension. Now this may be apron paranoia, but I think it's something deeper. And I think Will's weird comments about Kessler's defense may be part of it.
We know Will wants to play 5-out and with Kessler that doesn't happen. Kyle just had an amazing summer league and offensively he fits exactly what Will wants to do. I wonder if that, in effect, has made Kessler expendable.
Guess we'll see, but my bet right now is Kessler isn't with the Jazz next season.
Andy Larsen almost made him cry.
9. Kyle Anderson
While I said Kevin Love and Nurkic get what we're going to be doing this year, I'm not sure that's fully the case for Kyle.
The questions about keeping in touch with Gobert, his fisticuffs partner, is funny.
Seems like a weird choice for a vet to me (Kyle being the guy who's going to help Key, Thwomp, Brice, etc develop seems like a strange fit), but the Will and Spurs connection makes sense, and trust in Will alone probably mitigates the locker room cancer risk.
10. Brice
Brice has the confidence of an NBA player that I see lacking in Keyonte currently. This is going to be a big year for him. Sniper mode.
Another of my favs on the team, and he used to be one of my least favorites. It's been cool development to watch.
11. Kyle
Dude is talented but weird. I can't tell if it's Amish weird, babysitter now wifey weird, high-functioning autistic savant weird, or what. Would not be surprised at all if they found a collection of taxidermied marmots in this dude's basement when he gets a bigger contract and moves.
But I think the front office and coaching staff have a hunch he's special. No evidence other than the Summer League performances, but it's the vibe I'm getting - seems like there's a lot of belief in him, and I have a hunch that the Kessler stuff and all this is wrapped up together.
I think the Jazz think if he can become a league average defensive presence in the post and on the perimeter that he's their future starting center. I know lots of you see him at the 4, I think the Jazz see a clear advantage with five out if he can play the five defensively.
12. Minivan
Brother, that's no longer a cow lick. That is a giant bald spot in the middle of your head. I know you value the curls and whatever that bangs look you're going for is, but it's time to shave it off. Strip the paint of the minivan. It's time.
Not sure he "gets it" either like K Love does, but he's such a strong locker room guy that it doesn't matter.
13. Cody
Until this guy does something on the court consistently I'm not paying attention to him. I hope he gets better. I think he's a loser right now across multiple areas. Jazz fired their long time lead scouts based on this pick and that tells me all I need to know.
14. Thwomp
Also seems stoned but it may just be the Thwomp face.
I do not believe this shooting epiphany that allegedly happened post-Summer League and pre-NBA season, at the exact time when no one can see it, actually happened.
I know everyone thinks Deron leaving Utah cursed the rest of his career, and it did, but man it's really cursed us on the starting point guard hunt too, hasn't it?
15. Johnje
Let's see what you can do, guy. Seems like a good kid. Reminds me for some reason of the basketball version of John Legend.
16. Harkless
Guys seem to really like him and be rooting for him. Keyonte was lobbying the front office it sounded like. Kind of cool they're big upping the two-way contract guy.
17. Oscar
This dude is hilarious. "I look good anyway. New haircut."
17. Redhead
Who the **** are you and where is your soul?
This guy isn't Vanilla Ice, he's Iced Pumpkin Spiced Latte.
18. Ace
No mo Omo. (No more Omar.) Amazing how that completely changes the kid and his brand. Loves basketball, so excited, can't help but root for him.
"The dog has more fans than me" - hilarious. Ace is going to love it here - you can already tell.
19. Mo
Chill. Wise. Will be a good vet for what we're trying to do.
20. Walt
Feels like the reporters got tired and lost momentum and steam as the day went on, by the time they get to Walt they sound like they're hungover and mad about it.
I wonder what hair product he uses and if Niang has warned him about the dangers of overuse.
I like that he straight up laughed at Sarah Todd's question.
Good question from the guy who was playing Good Cop to Andy's Bad Cop about Walt's respect for Will.
Utah Jazz Media Day as Witnessed by FLC with Stream-of-Consciousness Reflections Included
1. Ainge the Younger and Ry-Guy
Ainge the Younger seems surprisingly competent. I'm glad we've locked him in - he seems liked and trusted by everyone in the org. Seems like he has vision, which isn't a surprise given his father.
He also sits like he has a six foot retractable metal rod shoved up his ******* and straight up the spinal cord, but also tilted like the axis of the Earth.
His chin movements also convince me that when he toasts a wine glass, he raises that pinky finger with the best of 'em.
But Ainge the Younger loves basketball like Ainge the Elder loves basketball. Cool to see that.
I appreciate Ry-Guy. He loves Utah. He's a great ambassador. He clearly values the evolution of Utah and the Jazz as a more important and lasting priority than his own money. And he's a strong enough manager to get out of his own way and let the basketball minds make decisions. We're lucky.
That said, his vibe reminds me of Kendall in Succession rapping in the backseat of his chauffeured car. I also suspect he's a Drake fan, which... lame.
Just because you're rich doesn't mean you should dress like a 20 year old hungover in Vegas about to board the flight home. That goes for Zuckerberg and it goes for Smith. In a parallel universe, Ry-Guy never got into tech and is drinking Four Lokos outside a 7-11 in Sandy blasting Toosie Slide.
I do wonder if the plan all along was for Danny to tear it down and have his son come in to build it up. Prolly not, but man I wish the beat reporters could get us the full, actual story here.
2. Will
This dude is a great coach. His answers were so ****ing good. That Shakespearean monologue he gave about the fans and players growing and earning together and the community's responsibility to raise these young men well - holy ****. That was a Hollywood quality response, I'd listen to that any day over the scene in Rudy. Rare you see such emotional competence and maturity in a guy that gives off Frat Social Chair vibes. It's clear why the players love him. This was Ainge and Smith's best move so far - even beyond the haul they got for Gobert.
It's going to piss people off, including me, during the season but his answer here on earned minutes and a meritocracy culture makes sense, and I see why he and the front office feels it's essential for winning. That's part of the difference between us and a Washington. We also don't offer predatory 'agents' jobs and money to route their client to us.
3. Kevin Love
Dude didn't want to move, spoke to Ryan and the Ainges, decided to come over. Agree with earlier speculation in this thread that the apron made a lot of change. But I think the Ryan and Ainge pitch went something like this: "We've got an incredibly talented 4/5 that we think might be something. He idolizes you. What are your plans after this contract? Oh, coaching? Let's make this a steady slide into player development - Utah is amazing for families." That's my hunch. He's going to be a great mentor to everyone, but Kyle especially.
Dazed and Confused was hilarious. Even more hilarious was the moment after where he realizes he just made a pedophile joke and smiled his way through it hoping no one would notice. Gold.
I wonder what would happen if you locked Kevin Love and the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives women in a house for 48 hours.
4. Lauri
Ainge the Younger, Lauri, and everyone on JazzFanz knows that if they get the offer they want, which I imagine is similar to Rudy or Donovan-level trades, Lauri is out. But I think they're committed to keeping him until they get what they want.
Seems like the vibes were pretty bad last year, which I suspect is a major part of the reason of the trades that happened this summer, even as lopsided as they were.
I think he has the Hayward issue where he isn't going to ever be the Alpha leader. Unlike Hayward, he's loyal and decent. Unlike Hayward and Hotnickkkky, he also doesn't have a level 300 wizard in World of Warcraft.
5. Taylor Hendricks
He's my new favorite.
What a great kid.
He sounds confident and fully recovered and trusting his body. His teammates love him and are rooting for him. I hope more than anything he has a completely badass year.
His answer on defense was awesome. Weird seeing that baby face on the massive biceps. Someone put him on the Karl Malone diet.
6. Jusuf Nurkic
I understood a quarter of what he said. He looks like a sad boy that got coal instead of presents. That said he's on board with the year.
7. Keyonte
Alright, let's get a little spicier. This one was a mixed bag for me:
He's gotten more mature, which is good.
The Dallas thing was clearly really meaningful, amazing for culture, and a great move on his part, also good.
He said he was going to be a leader, he's acting like it, also good.
But I think he's worried. I think he knows what we know about his numbers and his defense. The vibe I'm getting is he's not convinced that the work that he's put in is going to be enough to make him an NBA level player, let alone a starter. He knows this is a critical year - reinforced by Andy's questioning. (Also, Larsen with the hard hitting questions all night - I thought he was going to make Kessler cry, more on that **** show later.) How much of this 'it's about we, not me' stuff is, sure, something he believes but also a signal that he's valuable in ways off the court.
Hope he has a big year and transforms into a starting level guard. Locke is optimistic. I still believe and he's still young.
Did he sound and look stoned? Maybe it's just focus but he wasn't nearly as chipper and articulate as last year.
8. Kessler
Ok, here we go. I think Kessler is on his way out - I expect a trade at the deadline if they can juice up the Lakers - I'm sure there's a market that may even meet the Jazz's asking price, but they need to wait for teams to encounter struggles during the season and believe that Kessler is the answer to them.
Sounds like the Jazz fully declined to offer him an extension. Now this may be apron paranoia, but I think it's something deeper. And I think Will's weird comments about Kessler's defense may be part of it.
We know Will wants to play 5-out and with Kessler that doesn't happen. Kyle just had an amazing summer league and offensively he fits exactly what Will wants to do. I wonder if that, in effect, has made Kessler expendable.
Guess we'll see, but my bet right now is Kessler isn't with the Jazz next season.
Andy Larsen almost made him cry.
9. Kyle Anderson
While I said Kevin Love and Nurkic get what we're going to be doing this year, I'm not sure that's fully the case for Kyle.
The questions about keeping in touch with Gobert, his fisticuffs partner, is funny.
Seems like a weird choice for a vet to me (Kyle being the guy who's going to help Key, Thwomp, Brice, etc develop seems like a strange fit), but the Will and Spurs connection makes sense, and trust in Will alone probably mitigates the locker room cancer risk.
10. Brice
Brice has the confidence of an NBA player that I see lacking in Keyonte currently. This is going to be a big year for him. Sniper mode.
Another of my favs on the team, and he used to be one of my least favorites. It's been cool development to watch.
11. Kyle
Dude is talented but weird. I can't tell if it's Amish weird, babysitter now wifey weird, high-functioning autistic savant weird, or what. Would not be surprised at all if they found a collection of taxidermied marmots in this dude's basement when he gets a bigger contract and moves.
But I think the front office and coaching staff have a hunch he's special. No evidence other than the Summer League performances, but it's the vibe I'm getting - seems like there's a lot of belief in him, and I have a hunch that the Kessler stuff and all this is wrapped up together.
I think the Jazz think if he can become a league average defensive presence in the post and on the perimeter that he's their future starting center. I know lots of you see him at the 4, I think the Jazz see a clear advantage with five out if he can play the five defensively.
12. Minivan
Brother, that's no longer a cow lick. That is a giant bald spot in the middle of your head. I know you value the curls and whatever that bangs look you're going for is, but it's time to shave it off. Strip the paint of the minivan. It's time.
Not sure he "gets it" either like K Love does, but he's such a strong locker room guy that it doesn't matter.
13. Cody
Until this guy does something on the court consistently I'm not paying attention to him. I hope he gets better. I think he's a loser right now across multiple areas. Jazz fired their long time lead scouts based on this pick and that tells me all I need to know.
14. Thwomp
Also seems stoned but it may just be the Thwomp face.
I do not believe this shooting epiphany that allegedly happened post-Summer League and pre-NBA season, at the exact time when no one can see it, actually happened.
I know everyone thinks Deron leaving Utah cursed the rest of his career, and it did, but man it's really cursed us on the starting point guard hunt too, hasn't it?
15. Johnje
Let's see what you can do, guy. Seems like a good kid. Reminds me for some reason of the basketball version of John Legend.
16. Harkless
Guys seem to really like him and be rooting for him. Keyonte was lobbying the front office it sounded like. Kind of cool they're big upping the two-way contract guy.
17. Oscar
This dude is hilarious. "I look good anyway. New haircut."
17. Redhead
Who the **** are you and where is your soul?
This guy isn't Vanilla Ice, he's Iced Pumpkin Spiced Latte.
18. Ace
No mo Omo. (No more Omar.) Amazing how that completely changes the kid and his brand. Loves basketball, so excited, can't help but root for him.
"The dog has more fans than me" - hilarious. Ace is going to love it here - you can already tell.
19. Mo
Chill. Wise. Will be a good vet for what we're trying to do.
20. Walt
Feels like the reporters got tired and lost momentum and steam as the day went on, by the time they get to Walt they sound like they're hungover and mad about it.
I wonder what hair product he uses and if Niang has warned him about the dangers of overuse.
I like that he straight up laughed at Sarah Todd's question.
Good question from the guy who was playing Good Cop to Andy's Bad Cop about Walt's respect for Will.
fishonjazz
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I love the thwomp nickname for collier lol
It's a shame we can't get Boler to start using it, but you know he'd be like: "What's a Super Mario?"