Matthews: Jazz never made me an offer. I would have accepted less.

[1-Jazzfan]

I get your point, and still it is not valid. Wolves are WELL under the CAP without Jefferson. They don't need Dampier to absorb any contract, then can flat out accept it with their CAP room. Even if they were not under CAP, they could use TPE they got from us to do exactly what you are proposing with Dampier. The bottom line is Dampier has the same value as TPE. Actually worse, because TPE is good for a year, and Damp's contract has to be terminated before start of season. No matter how you slice it, Dallas having Dampier does not give them any advantage of our TPE. If anything, TPE has the advantage here, as I explained before, plus we had better draft picks than Dallas.

Ya, back to the Dampier contract. Dallas probably would have gotten AJ, but they insisted on packaging DeShawn Stevenson and Matt Carroll in the deal. Minnesota didn't want those guys or their contracts, and since KOC was giving them two first round picks and only asking for them to take Kosta's contract of a measly 1.3 this year, Minnesota was like, Ok, let's make the deal.

Dampier's contract is only worth more than the Trade exception because if they could have just swapped players, Dampier's contract would be dumped and Minnesota wouldn't have to make a trade to get the benefit, it would be instant gratification.

But Dallas/Cuban wanted to dump DeSteve and Carroll and Minnesota said no way.

To me that's all their is to say about it.

 

[One Brow]

Harcher, I'm not so fast to concede this matter for the following reasosn:

This was a thoroughly reasonable post, that I agreed with completely.

Of course not. Just like you never conceded Dwill was frustrated even when pointed an article, where he actually said it.

Your confirmation bias is quite severe. William's level of frustation, as described in the relevant article, was no where near the level you portrayed it to be.

Ross Siler just pwned wrong4u on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/tribjazz

Thanks for bringing reality to the discussion, honz.

Why do you guys keep playing KOC's role in your imagination and keep thinking the best of his intentions and defending him? Maybe ..., maybe ... may have ... the most reasonable scenario ... .

Considering all the maybe's you keep throwing around, why not go gets some actuals before you criticize other people for having their own opinions on O.Connor's role?

Well, who do you believe then? Matthews said there was no offer. KOC never even tried to negotiate.

What I don't believe is a person who is so dense they thing "was no offer" means "never even tried to negotiate".

Still, KOC should made a reasonable offer to show good faith.

"An offer" would be a written contract, ready to sign, based upon previous negotiations. If negotiations never reached the point of an agreement, why would there be an offer?

 

[mellow]

Not making an official offer is not the same as not negotiating. BUt if you're still hanging on to Wes, how about this-- Wes COuld've said, " I'm not accepting any offers from any team untill I get a fair offer from the jazz." It puts the burden on KOC and probably would get him close to the MLE and a starting job in Utah.

If he wanted to be back so bad he should've explored that option, I guess he is a bad negotiator.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

PLease, this is just Wesley trying to stay in good standings with us fans.

 

[One Brow]

Apparently there is a limit on multi-quote, so I needed to have a second post in a row to respond to everything.

OK, so we are finally on the same page, and you now agree Jazz never negotiated.

Actually, you have agreed the O'Connor did negotiate. When you sit down at a table, and say "we'd like to talk about 3 or 4 years at x rate", that *is* a megotiation. At most, you could say O'Connor didn't haggle. Walking away *is* a negotiation tactic.

The only difference of opinion now is that you "don't think any counter offers would be going anywhere", and I feel just make a fair counter offer and actually see if it is going anywhere or not. Never assume when you have a chance to actually see.

You are confusing a casual offer with an offer of a contract. The Jazz did not offer a contract. That doesn't mean they never outlined a general level of salary and timeframe.

I have a MUCH easier time believing KOC on this one. They talked to the agent and the agent made his demands. I can't believe that the agent was waiting for the jazz to make an offer. It just doesn't work that way.

Sounds to me like Wes is covering his arse. Maybe he is also upset that he just realized that he is stuck with the Blazers and sitting on the bench.

I agree.

 

[D Will> CP3]

What's the problem with offering Wes a contract like 4 year 16-20 mil and see if he accepts. In that case he may have signed. If he doesn't is then when you let him see what offer he gets and decide from there IMO (EX: Blazers offer too much so you let him go)

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

What's the problem with offering Wes a contract like 4 year 16-20 mil and see if he accepts. In that case he may have signed. If he doesn't is then when you let him see what offer he gets and decide from there IMO (EX: Blazers offer too much so you let him go)

He wouldnt give up 12 million to stay in Utah, maybe he would of given up to 5 million, but anything over that no way, and I dont blame him.

 

[Archie Moses]

If Matthews wanted less, he wouldn't have signed that offer sheet. Anyways, I'm happy for Matthews. I think it's a great story, especially with him going undrafted. Take that money to the bank, son.

 

[One Brow]

What's the problem with offering Wes a contract like 4 year 16-20 mil and see if he accepts. In that case he may have signed. If he doesn't is then when you let him see what offer he gets and decide from there IMO (EX: Blazers offer too much so you let him go)

Why would you go tot he expense of creating a contract on terms that have not been agreed to?

 

[gregbroncs]

What's the problem with offering Wes a contract like 4 year 16-20 mil and see if he accepts. In that case he may have signed. If he doesn't is then when you let him see what offer he gets and decide from there IMO (EX: Blazers offer too much so you let him go)

How do you know they didn't? Just because they never wrote down the offer does not mean they did not throw it out there when meeting with the agent. BTW your offer is still too much IMO. But that's not the point. People are bashing KOC for letting Mathews even receive the Portland offer.

Why would Mathews ever agree to less than MLE without 1st finding out if he could get it? Not 1 person bashing KOC for this has come up with a reasonable response to this. And I and others have asked this or something similar repeatedly without a reasonable (ex. not 100% homerish) answer.

 

[Hopper]

How do you know they didn't?

Jazz haters know EVERYTHING, eh, Greg? That's because they aint no blind "homers," see?

 

[D Will> CP3]

I'm saying the Jazz should have offered first and seen what Wes thought of it. Wes said multiple times on that fanhouse article he didn't ever receive an offer.

Archie- If the $ is handed to you like that no one would have declined it. It's just a guess but I'm guessing the Jazz probably didnt want to pay him for than 4-5 mil a year. Point is he seems not to thrilled the Jazz didn't offer him and now is in a bad situation w/ Portland(Depth issues) They just drafted 2 guards and a G-F in Babbit, already have Miller and Roy, have Fernandez,Bayless,Batum and Mills. They might send the rookie's to the D league but will still have 8 guards including Matthews. I wouldn't be surprised if they dealt 1-2 of them