WI Gubernatorial Recall

[Scat]

I'm curious as to what most people think about the recall effort in WI and its subsequent defeat. What are the ramifications on the future of public workers unions? The upcoming presidential election?

Personally I find it refreshing that a leader faced the problem head on, found a solution and implemented it with success. Some hard decisions were made but I think it shows that with relatively little pain a greater goal can be achieved.

 

[green]

Unions are outdated, top heavy, and while they served a much needed purpose, that purpose is no longer there. Basically, they are dying.

Good riddance.

 

[Hantlers]

**** unions.

 

[Dr. Jones]

hate unions and all they stand for ..............

 

[Nate505]

The recall election was stupid, and the Dems in that state should be ashamed they brought it to one.

That being said I doubt it has much bearing on the Presidential race. Walker outspent the other guy $30 million to $4 million and Obama has led in every poll I've seen in Wisconsin.

 

[babe]

Unions are a necessary and beneficial concept, and fail mostly because of internal corruption. The one I've known, an USW local, was just effectively co-opted by corporate management, and managed to collect dues without returning any benefit to the workers. Every time contract negotiations came up, some union honcho betrayed the members. . . .. and within a few years got a lush "management" job.

Too bad they're losing their "cause" for productive workers getting treated better.... . . . too bad American unions support crap like NAFTA and illegal immigrantion/slaveworker labor. . . . . and outsourcing. . . . .

That said, the public workers in WI were unjustly outraged. . . . . a lot of non-government union folks could clearly see that it's not in the public interest to have an elite class of government employees raking in benefits and bucks that just looked too cushy, and all the union effort to protect the government "workers" just made them look like spoiled brats nobody wants to subsidize. Or, perhaps, seemed to be setting a precedent for a new kind of class conflict, with government overlords getting paid a fat premium on serving the "Master"/government.

The WI polls I've heard about in recent days show Obama in danger of losing a state that last went Republican in 1984. American wages/benefits have suffered in the private sector, the public sector has to help keep taxes down for the rest of us.

The Democratic Party has been co-opted by the blueblood royalist UN elite.

 

[One Brow]

Some of the polling I read said many voters objectd to a recall based on political positions, as opposed to malfeasance of some sort.

I'm not sure what it means. I don't understand all the union hate in here. Unions are equalizers in the job market.

 

[candrew]

The WI polls I've heard about in recent days show Obama in danger of losing a state that last went Republican in 1984. American wages/benefits have suffered in the private sector, the public sector has to help keep taxes down for the rest of us.

According to CNN Exit Polls yesterday, Obama is up double digits in Wisconsin. Which of course did nothing for Tom Barrett being Obama didn't feel inclined to get up off his *** and go to Wisconsin to campaign for Barrett or even really endorse his candidacy.

 

[NAOS]

Unions are a necessary and beneficial concept, and fail mostly because of internal corruption. The one I've known, an USW local, was just effectively co-opted by corporate management, and managed to collect dues without returning any benefit to the workers. Every time contract negotiations came up, some union honcho betrayed the members. . . .. and within a few years got a lush "management" job.

Too bad they're losing their "cause" for productive workers getting treated better.... . . . too bad American unions support crap like NAFTA and illegal immigrantion/slaveworker labor. . . . . and outsourcing. . . . .

That said, the public workers in WI were justly outraged. . . . . a lot of union folks could clearly see that it's not in the public interest to have an elite class of government employees raking in benefits and bucks that just looked too cushy, and all the union effort to protect these "workers" just made them look like spoiled brats nobody wants to subsidize.

The WI polls I've heard about in recent days show Obama in danger of losing a state that last went Republican in 1984. American wages/benefits have suffered in the private sector, the public sector has to help keep taxes down for the rest of us.

The Democratic Party has been co-opted by the blueblood royalist UN elite.

like Candrew, I'm not sure of your polling numbers. But, the rest of this post is excellent.

 

[Stoked]

According to CNN Exit Polls yesterday, Obama is up double digits in Wisconsin. Which of course did nothing for Tom Barrett being Obama didn't feel inclined to get up off his *** and go to Wisconsin to campaign for Barrett or even really endorse his candidacy.

The recent polls show it as a much tighter race in WI for the presidency. I wonder where the difference comes from. Interesting.

Edit: Having said that I think Obama will win WI and that it will always be just out of reach for Romney. Romney spending alot of time and money in WI could be a costly mistake.

 

[green]

What has happened in WI has shown the fallacy in unions. Unions go on and on about how they protect the worker, "equalizers in job market", blah, blah, blah. Unions are nothing more than modern versions of the mob. Look what has happened in WI once Walker allowed unions to be voluntary:

"Best of all, the myth that union bosses represent their members’ interests has been exposed as a lie. Now that union dues are voluntary, tens of thousands of union members have stopped paying them. Membership in the Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union (AFSCME) has dropped by half. Membership in the state’s American Federation of Teachers (AFT) is down by over a third. Given unions’ influential role in most elections, the national implications of this trend are staggering."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billfr...victory-spells-doom-for-public-sector-unions/

Unions are nothing more than political bullies. WI down, NJ next.

If Christie can end "forced" union memberships in NJ, unions will die immediately...not because of the mean, big, bad republicans, but because unions aren't what original unions were meant to be, and their members know it.

 

[green]

The recent polls show it as a much tighter race in WI for the presidency. I wonder where the difference comes from. Interesting.

Edit: Having said that I think Obama will win WI and that it will always be just out of reach for Romney. Romney spending alot of time and money in WI could be a costly mistake.

Last night showed that Romney might not have to spend much time in WI at all. The republicans there are extremely well run and organized.

 

[candrew]

"Best of all, the myth that union bosses represent their members’ interests has been exposed as a lie. Now that union dues are voluntary, tens of thousands of union members have stopped paying them. Membership in the Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union (AFSCME) has dropped by half. Membership in the state’s American Federation of Teachers (AFT) is down by over a third. Given unions’ influential role in most elections, the national implications of this trend are staggering."

So Walker busts the union, membership falls, and that's your validation that unions were never any good to begin with.


Good stuff man. Keep up the deep thoughts.

 

[Scat]

So Walker busts the union, membership falls, and that's your validation that unions were never any good to begin with.

I don't recall him saying that unions were never good to begin with.

Unions are outdated, top heavy, and while they served a much needed purpose, that purpose is no longer there. Basically, they are dying.

 

[green]

So Walker busts the union, membership falls, and that's your validation that unions were never any good to begin with.


Good stuff man. Keep up the deep thoughts.

Typical left wing crap. Go back and re-read my posts. Unions were essential before people like you took control of them. Now unions, like I said, are modern day mafia's. They just bully people around.

 

[Scat]

Unions are equalizers in the job market.

Job market equalizers? Which job market? The current one where people in the private sector are dealing with unpaid furlough, pay decreases, pay freezes, reduction in benefits & even being laid off? Unions cry if their members are asked to take a pay freeze for one year let alone any of the other concessions that I mentioned. Unions are no longer job market equalizers but rather job market destroyers.

 

[GVC]

It's worth pointing out that unions operate in the private sector as well (and compete against non-union firms).

 

[candrew]

Typical left wing crap. Go back and re-read my posts. Unions were essential before people like you took control of them. Now unions, like I said, are modern day mafia's. They just bully people around.

So you mean they're like the mafia in a good way?

Look, I'm not here to discuss the history of unions - not interested. But I do find it humorous that people leaving the union after gutting it makes you think that particular union was no good to begin with.

I can't spell it out for you any better than that.

 

[Scat]

It's worth pointing out that unions operate in the private sector as well (and compete against non-union firms).

True. I have a friend that worked for UPS about 20 years ago. He said that every 3 years the union would target one of the big package delivery companies and make some demand that had to be met or they would call a strike. One particular year it was UPS' turn to be targeted. At the time UPS had the highest pay and best benefits so there was really nothing to demand. What did the union come up with? UPS had to provide lumbar support in all their delivery trucks for their drivers or they would strike. My friend said that it wasn't about fair pay and compensation but rather power. The union had to show UPS they had the power. Of course this was a relatively modest demand so UPS gave all of their drivers a lumbar pillow to place on their seat if they wanted and the dog and pony show was over for the year.

 

[GVC]

I don't want to get dragged into a stupid argument with ideologues, so I'll keep this short.

There are benefits to organized labor that some choose to ignore. I worked in a union sheet metal shop for a little while, and it wasn't a coincidence that local businesses turned to us when they needed high quality, custom work (especially if they had stainless steel jobs). There were plenty of non-union shops to choose from, but they mostly did ****ty, low-skill work around town (we got plenty of calls to fix their mistakes when ignorant business owners hired these shops to do more intricate work).

This is largely due to economies of scale created by organized labor. With all the union shops in the area pooling resources to train their new employees, we were much more proficient. Further, with a more rigorous screening process to enter an apprenticeship, and a more honest, cooperative workplace (along with great benefits creating an incentive to work hard), good people were hired and stayed on.

Does it work this way all the time? Of course not, but organized labor isn't the cosa nostra in all cases either.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume green doesn't have nearly the same misgivings about the ridiculous amount of collusion among business owners and executives.