WI Gubernatorial Recall

[babe]

It's worth pointing out that unions operate in the private sector as well (and compete against non-union firms).

Unions in the private sector operate in a fundamentally different sort of "reality". That's why even some historical supporters of private sector unions used to say public employees shouldn't be unionized.

Private sector employers take their profits to the bank, or take on debt for themselves. Public sector employers take the savings to the public treasury. lol. And we pay the taxes they need to run their programs. Public sector employers represent the "real" owners, the "people". The pernicious evil that results from public sector unions is a doubled-down clique of folks who whine and dine and create their own little clique of "insiders" whose existence is wholly at the public expense,and against the public interest.

To prevent this, and yet still promote the cause of good public education with the better teachers on the job, the public would be better served with an independent performance commission that operates like a check and balance on the public management, and a performance review function that looks at teacher merits/dismissals. Not a State or Federal oversight body like a state "board of education" or a Federal Dept. of Education which in effect guarantee the development of "insider"/"elite" management which is not responsive to parents and acts at every decision to raise costs of education without concern for the interests of the students or their parents, but instead promote global or national propaganda/indoctrination objectives. Unions and the public education establishment, for whatever "good" intentions that some might have, are an overlord form of governance that is inherently against the public interest.

Management that is hobbled from making essential decisions to fire poor teachers by a maze of rules and procedures resulting not from parent/management meetings but union/management backroom deals, or is in any other way diverted from making the necessary and right decisions, should not be tolerated. When parents/students are being cut out of the deal, we should fire them all.

Vouchers would be a minimal step in the right direction, allowing the parents/students with the guts to make their own decisions the power to do so, with their own tax money.

 

[PearlWatson]

My point is that teachers need a union because if I had to negotiate my contract individually, I would get eaten alive.

If it was up to me, private schools would be illegal, along with home schooling.

I'd like to know your reasoning for both of these statements if you are still watching this thread.

 

[PearlWatson]

Unions in the private sector operate in a fundamentally different sort of "reality". That's why even some historical supporters of private sector unions used to say public employees shouldn't be unionized.

Private sector employers take their profits to the bank, or take on debt for themselves. Public sector employers take the savings to the public treasury. lol. And we pay the taxes they need to run their programs. Public sector employers represent the "real" owners, the "people". The pernicious evil that results from public sector unions is a doubled-down clique of folks who whine and dine and create their own little clique of "insiders" whose existence is wholly at the public expense,and against the public interest.

To prevent this, and yet still promote the cause of good public education with the better teachers on the job, the public would be better served with an independent performance commission that operates like a check and balance on the public management, and a performance review function that looks at teacher merits/dismissals. Not a State or Federal oversight body like a state "board of education" or a Federal Dept. of Education which in effect guarantee the development of "insider"/"elite" management which is not responsive to parents and acts at every decision to raise costs of education without concern for the interests of the students or their parents, but instead promote global or national propaganda/indoctrination objectives. Unions and the public education establishment, for whatever "good" intentions that some might have, are an overlord form of governance that is inherently against the public interest.

Management that is hobbled from making essential decisions to fire poor teachers by a maze of rules and procedures resulting not from parent/management meetings but union/management backroom deals, or is in any other way diverted from making the necessary and right decisions, should not be tolerated. When parents/students are being cut out of the deal, we should fire them all.

Vouchers would be a minimal step in the right direction, allowing the parents/students with the guts to make their own decisions the power to do so, with their own tax money.

You make some fine points that haven't been addressed.

I used to be wholeheartedly in support of vouchers but I'm just not sure about them anymore. I've seen charter schools flourish in Utah once vouchers were shot down. They have become a great alternative for parents.

 

[babe]

You make some fine points that haven't been addressed.

I used to be wholeheartedly in support of vouchers but I'm just not sure about them anymore. I've seen charter schools flourish in Utah once vouchers were shot down. They have become a great alternative for parents.

Well, when it comes right down to it, I don't like the idea of the government passing out vouchers any more than I like the idea of property tax supporting somebody else's idea of education.

But I am aware of some excellent schools in the "Charter" set, as well as some very impressive ones in public or pure homeschool cases.

The original idea of "education" in this country was to provide teachers locally supported by the local community, with a little boost from the sale of some land. There was no idea of imposing a public system generally, or laying taxes to pay for it. The perceived need was for reading, writing and arithmetic, and the expectation was that people would be free to learn anything they wanted once they had those skills, and smart enough to make the most of it.

There used to be a lot of church schools, or other charitable schools. Gresham's law has been at work since some elites decided they should put their hand to the helm and steer us all "left" or "into the corral". A "good" school is one where the teachers and the students are there to develop their skills and capacities for learning, not one where the "answers" are all laid out for the student to conform to, or memorize. Good schools are crazy places where questions are respected, and the efforts to answer them become "projects", works of love.

Standardized testing is inimical to actual "education" of the type specified by the meaning of the greek roots . . . . the process of drawing out. Not hammering in.

"Performance improves with measurement" translates as "Conformity improves with didactic-ism."

The best teachers I ever had just gave me a challenge, and left the room/resources open to me. And believe it or not, there were several public school teachers who did that for me. In public schools. And, actually, they were "liberals", meaning democrats of the old style.

 

[The Thriller]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this... But... I think the main reason why Walker won was because of his well financed and organized team. I think this teaches us more about how bad our system truly is. It's the best money can buy... Another example of why we need to go the OPPOSITE direction of Citizens United...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/wisconsin-recall-results-scott-walker_b_1572887.html

Here's a headline you won't see, but should: "Scott Walker Spent 88% of the Money to Get 53% of the Vote."

the real winner in Wisconsin on Tuesday was not Gov. Scott Walker, but Big Money. And the real loser was not Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, but democracy.

Walker's Republican campaign outspent Barrett's Democratic campaign by $30.5 million to $4 million -- that's a 7.5 to 1 advantage. Another way of saying this is that of the $34.5 million spent on their campaigns, Walker spend 88% of the money.

But the reality is even worse than this, because the $34.5 million figure does not include so-called independent expenditures and issue ads paid for primarily by out-of-state billionaires (like the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson and Joe Ricketts), business groups, and the National Rifle Association, which were skewed even more heavily toward Walker. Once all this additional spending is calculated, we'll see that total spending in this race could be more than double the $34.5 million number,

 

[The Thriller]

If this same principle holds true, who has more money in our Presidential race?

 

[babe]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this... But... I think the main reason why Walker won was because of his well financed and organized team. I think this teaches us more about how bad our system truly is. It's the best money can buy... Another example of why we need to go the OPPOSITE direction of Citizens United...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/wisconsin-recall-results-scott-walker_b_1572887.html

We've had the "best money can buy" since Lincoln was asked to run by the New York banker clique over a hundred fifty years ago.

HuffandPuff isn't bought and paid for?

 

[green]

If this same principle holds true, who has more money in our Presidential race?

Freakenomics did a study on this and they came to the conclusion that money really isn't as important as we make it out to be. They followed two candidates that ran against each other in successive races and found that doubling the $$$ spent only move the vote a percentage or two.

 

[Stoked]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this... But... I think the main reason why Walker won was because of his well financed and organized team. I think this teaches us more about how bad our system truly is. It's the best money can buy... Another example of why we need to go the OPPOSITE direction of Citizens United...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/wisconsin-recall-results-scott-walker_b_1572887.html

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...ed-real-life-news-headlines-article-1.1089108

In rsponse to blaming the outcome on citizens united and how they are mis representing the money that was really spent in the Dems cause.