The Best Laid Plans . . . .

[Stoked]

active, decent, card-carrying Mormons will not be the avant-garde activists decrying the follies of LDS leaders high or low.

your place in the show is the loyal apologists who will spin ever-more creative apologetics and faithful fairy tales.

I'm surprized Colton or Jason haven't put me out to pasture, yet.

I know when I'm being an ***. And when being right just sounds like that.

This topic has no connection to the truthfulness or virtue of God, or His willingness to love and sustain Mormons in their efforts to build the family of God. Catholics and Protestants have already had their day in the political sun, with the same result for their faiths as what I'm saying the LDS will experience. A whole lot of folks realizing that a religious man in politics is just oxymoronic. Maybe more succinctly put as "moronic on steroids."

But my point is Mitt isn't any more representative of Mormonism than Harry Reid, and certainly no better as a politician. And just exactly why can I say that without any caveat or humble little expression that maybe I'm just wrong for all I know???? For the same reason I didn't think Obama was "real change". . . . . because of the people standing in the background in support of his run. George Bush maybe instead of Bill Clinton, but the same corporates including pharmaceutic cartelists and military suppliers and wall street bankers and a whole pack of eager beaver schemers doing an end-run around Constitutional principles and hoping to manage the world without actually honoring human rights.

If Mormons get linked to Mitt in the public mind, the time will come when it will be a huge problem for LDS missionary credibility.

It is my opinion that they always have been. While that opinion may affect missionary work in the U.S., and maybe even Canada and Mexico, I do not see it affecting missionary work in places such as Ghana, New Zealand or Japan. Mormonism is alive and well outside Utah and outside the U.S.

 

[franklin]

That's one of the reasons babe is no 1 in my list and you're no 25.. oh wait.

You are #2 on my list, right behind Beef Steak.

 

[Former Member]

If Mormons get linked to Mitt in the public mind, the time will come when it will be a huge problem for LDS missionary credibility.

Can you elaborate on this a little more? I don't understand how Mitt being president will influence LDS missionary credibility. I'm not LDS, however, I do know a bit about the program. I've had numerous friends go on LDS missions.

 

[Scat]

Can you elaborate on this a little more? I don't understand how Mitt being president will influence LDS missionary credibility. I'm not LDS, however, I do know a bit about the program. I've had numerous friends go on LDS missions.

He's saying that Mitt will be a horrid president and will screw the US so hard that if people begin to associate Mitt with the missionary program, people will view LDS missionaries as being just as evil as Mitt thereby decreasing their credibility in attracting converts.

 

[Dr. Jones]

So let me ask you this ..

What is the potential of a rift developing between Mitt and the LDS church? Meaning, I see the LDS church providing direction to Mitt that should, in the mind of that church, to be aligned with its principles. Will Mitt be willing to take absolute direction or will he make decisions that he feels, personally, to be of better direction?

I am NOT implying the LDS church would attempt to run the country .. only that there are definite ideals within any religion that are absolute and immovable.

I do believe there will be a different perception in the minds of U.S. citizens with regard to Mitt vs. other Catholic, Protestant, etc political figures of the past. The LDS church puts itself out as more distinct, more of the 'ONE' true church than the others .. at least in perception, if not in reality.

This means people will be eyeing, very closely, whether Mitt appears to be a puppet .. and I predict that every good move by Mitt will result in most people viewing that as 'good for him' he's his own man .. while every negative move will be cast at the feet of the puppet master.

 

[Former Member]

and I predict that every good move by Mitt will result in most people viewing that as 'good for him' he's his own man .. while every negative move will be cast at the feet of the puppet master.

Bingo. I think this is how it would happen.

 

[Former Member]

He's saying that Mitt will be a horrid president and will screw the US so hard that if people begin to associate Mitt with the missionary program, people will view LDS missionaries as being just as evil as Mitt thereby decreasing their credibility in attracting converts.

I don't think this is too much of a worry. I think Mitt might be used as a scapegoat for individuals who have no desire to convert in the first place, however, if someone is willing to convert they can overlook "human error".

People still convert to the Catholic Church, and we have had a serious PR nightmare with the sex abuse scandals.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

If Mormons get linked to Mitt in the public mind, the time will come when it will be a huge problem for LDS missionary credibility.

Dang, I just linked you to Mitt. You are in trouble.

 

[babe]

It is my opinion that they always have been. While that opinion may affect missionary work in the U.S., and maybe even Canada and Mexico, I do not see it affecting missionary work in places such as Ghana, New Zealand or Japan. Mormonism is alive and well outside Utah and outside the U.S.

We've got some competitive bits of wisdom here. . . . I was about to spout some contradictory little trite sayings to show how the more things change the more they stay the same, and that there's nothing so constant as change.

I don't think the world is that blind or indifferent anymore. . . oh, I guess the common folks hardly have time to think of the news, let alone politics anymore. Too busy working drudge jobs all over the world. But the news is everywhere, and tell me when the media never ran the dirt on the Mormons. Mitt could be a marvelous and successful President. . . . maybe as stellar as his mentors Bush I and Bush II. . . . .and various great business lights. . . . and if he stumbles on the podium it will be on the ten oclock news that's maybe he's been breaking the word of wisdom or maybe his garments are too stiff for the stairs.

But I was talking about actually merited criticisms, like supporting the provisions of the HSA and NDAA which undermine privisions of the Bill of Rights, and a whole lot of other govt. management contrary to the the notions of human rights once considered important to "liberty". Probably the press will indeed give him a pass on those things. But not a whole lot freshly-awakened activists for limited government.

 

[babe]

I don't think this is too much of a worry. I think Mitt might be used as a scapegoat for individuals who have no desire to convert in the first place, however, if someone is willing to convert they can overlook "human error".

People still convert to the Catholic Church, and we have had a serious PR nightmare with the sex abuse scandals.

Probably there are a substantial number of LDS leaders who are sophisticated enough not to worry, who might even suggest "We don't care what is said about as, as long as they spell our name right." But there are some nervous nellies in the ranks too, and indeed a great expense is laid out on the Mormon image problems. . . .

And you're right. Most people "convert" in complete disregard of leadership and the track record. . . . maybe friends are more important, and maybe faith in God just soars over the heads of the failing "leaders".

 

[babe]

So let me ask you this ..

What is the potential of a rift developing between Mitt and the LDS church? Meaning, I see the LDS church providing direction to Mitt that should, in the mind of that church, to be aligned with its principles. Will Mitt be willing to take absolute direction or will he make decisions that he feels, personally, to be of better direction?

I am NOT implying the LDS church would attempt to run the country .. only that there are definite ideals within any religion that are absolute and immovable.

I do believe there will be a different perception in the minds of U.S. citizens with regard to Mitt vs. other Catholic, Protestant, etc political figures of the past. The LDS church puts itself out as more distinct, more of the 'ONE' true church than the others .. at least in perception, if not in reality.

This means people will be eyeing, very closely, whether Mitt appears to be a puppet .. and I predict that every good move by Mitt will result in most people viewing that as 'good for him' he's his own man .. while every negative move will be cast at the feet of the puppet master.

Many years ago I became unenthusiatic about "Home Teachers" because I doubted the system, and felt it was more of a surveillance service for leadership. . . . .Mormons do a lot of regular stuff just to be supportive of LDS leadership. . . . ward missionaries, genealogical date miners, canning projects at the food storage place. . . . it's what Mormons "do". An LDS US President setting aside Monday evenings as "Family Night"??????

A lot of people will work with grist like that to support the notion that LDS leadership is micromanaging Mitt. But that's not my thesis. I hypothesize some very sophisticated insider stuff like elites of all faiths have traditional run "under the radar", with practically no mere words needed. It's fine, upstanding folks who just understand one another very well, and fit together like hand and glove.

Mitt will be in harmony with LDS elties and world elites. He will look damaging to many poor or conservative principled thinkers whose letters to the editor are never published.

The rift will be between conservative Mormons and their leaders. . . .

 

[Stoked]

We've got some competitive bits of wisdom here. . . . I was about to spout some contradictory little trite sayings to show how the more things change the more they stay the same, and that there's nothing so constant as change.

I don't think the world is that blind or indifferent anymore. . . oh, I guess the common folks hardly have time to think of the news, let alone politics anymore. Too busy working drudge jobs all over the world. But the news is everywhere, and tell me when the media never ran the dirt on the Mormons. Mitt could be a marvelous and successful President. . . . maybe as stellar as his mentors Bush I and Bush II. . . . .and various great business lights. . . . and if he stumbles on the podium it will be on the ten oclock news that's maybe he's been breaking the word of wisdom or maybe his garments are too stiff for the stairs.

But I was talking about actually merited criticisms, like supporting the provisions of the HSA and NDAA which undermine privisions of the Bill of Rights, and a whole lot of other govt. management contrary to the the notions of human rights once considered important to "liberty". Probably the press will indeed give him a pass on those things. But not a whole lot freshly-awakened activists for limited government.

I really do enjoy your responses babe.

I agree that "dirt" has indeed been dug up on the Mormon church by the media. They will coninue to do so as well. They will bring it up as you say anytime he makes a blunder/mistake. "oh those whacky Mormons...". The simple point is was making is that the media has already succeeded in linking the LDS church and Romney together in the general publics mind. That was done thru all the articles that you mention

Now if Romney is elected and he is an abject failure I can see that having a negative impact on missionary work and the perception of the church in the US. However I can see the reverse playin out as well. If he wins and then is a fantastic president I can see that opening doors that would have stayed firmly shut otherwise.


Sent from my phone so forgive any errors/typos