Only independents in general see this, Hardcore leftists and rightists think anything bad is the other side and anything good came from them. Idiots.
Top Five Worst Obamacare Taxes Coming in 2013
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Only independents in general see this, Hardcore leftists and rightists think anything bad is the other side and anything good came from them. Idiots.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
True..but, some deserve some credit and some don't. Same as some, some deserve blame some don't.
I dont want anybody representing me that is a fraud and a liar. And I don't respect any political party or its followers if they are ok with lies. Some people are ok with it. Some say its just part of the political system. I say that is stupid. We have to demand better. If you dont hold them to a higher standard then they just abuse you. Why does anybody even think they can trust a guy who just lied about all sorts of stuff? What makes you think he doesnt have more cons up his sleeve, right after he is elected? Ones that would just hurt you.
It is the political system and it is stupid. We should hold them to a higher stanard. I agree with that completely.
Lol, good luck with that. A civil war will happen before a third, viable, political party rises.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
My observation has been that the more time passes, the less people hate it.
Here is a poll showing only a minority want to repeal any part of it:
https://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/obamacare-is-no-longer-so-unpopular/259720/
I agree people did not understand it and should have before it was voted on. The democrats did a terrible job educating the public on it, and the republicans did a great (terrible?) job lying to the public about it. But as more time passes, more people learn about it, and fewer people hate it.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
That shows that the Obamacare polls over the last 2 years average high 40s/low 50s against it and high 30s/low 40s for it. It sinwgs back and forth but I do not see that much improvement.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
PKM demonstrates once again that even though he talks so much about pro-business, less government, free market, etc he really has no idea what he's talking about.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
K, so repubs get their wish. Obamacare is repealed...
What's their replacement?
See, in the real world, not in some fantasy, solutions need to be created. In the real world, people actually get sick, lose their insurances, go bankrupt because of their health care costs, aren't bailed out by charities/churches, die, and we end up paying twice as much as the next country in health care costs.
It's one thing to moan about Obamacare. It's a completely different ball game when talking about a replacement. You'd think that after 8+ years of being in the white house and now nearly 4 years of moaning about Obamacare, repubs would have provided an alternative. They haven't.
So keep your mouth shut and stop complaining.
PS I know you won't respond to this because I'm on your ignore list. right? LOL you're such a joke
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Well I guess it depends on which polls you look at. If you look at the mute recent polls in their list, several have a favorable rating for obamacare. And their graph definitely shows it was trending towards favorable with time.
A lot of it probably depends on how they worded the questions. For example, most dems wanted a single payer system. If you ask dems if obamacare should be replaced, they'll probably say yes, because they want a single payer system. However, if you ask them if them if obamacare should be repealed and we go back to the totally unregulated system of before obamacare, most dems will say to leave obamacare alone.
And most republicans will probably say they hate obamacare and want it repealed. But if you tell them their kids can stay in their plan until they're 26, can't be kicked off for using it too much, and can't be denied due to pre existing conditions, they'll probably say they live those things.
Heck, most republicans will probably say they hate the idea of a single payer system. Those same republicans will be ready to riot if you tell them their Medicare is being abolished.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
This.
You better call the Harvard economic department & explain this fairy tell to them. They'll be shocked to find out this hasn't been happening only because Peter Pan no longer believed in Never Land so it no longer exists.
Do you honestly believe fantasy is the way to convince anyone? Never mind, you are a talking point democrat.
It would be nice if it were that easy to create success. I can relate to your sentiment and I can relate to the pov of business people worried about being attacked even further for bettering the world. There is something very beneficial from a stable environment that fosters confidence. You can't make a calculated investement decision when you have no clue what the variables even are.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
There is absolutely no substance in your post. And then you finish it if by calling me a talking point democrat, lol.
It's not fantasy land, it's capitalism. Fantasy land is all the idiots claiming that if some particular "job creator" packs up and moves to China, no other "job creator" could ever possibly take its place.
Don't unknown variables create risk which creates reward which is the essence of entrepreneurship?
I'm certainly not saying it's easy to create success, but I will say that stopping or reducing your business is a sure fire way of not creating success. And I agree everyone wants a stable economic environment, but these guys aren't even supposedly waiting to see if it's stable or not, they are just making dumb threats.
And what sort of person decides to reduce their business on the basis of who is in the executive office? If I'm running a company that sells Widget A, and there is a great demand for Widget A, I'm a moron if I say "well golly gee, Obama is going to get elected so therefore I won't expand even though there is all this demand out there." And if I take that strategy, someone is going to fill the void regardless of whatever scary doomsday scenarios these people are predicting with an Obama 2nd term, even though nothing has really changed from a risk perspective in the past 4 years.
The better argument one could make is that if Obama does pass regulations which hurt business, business will just add on the costs to the consumer and the consumer is the one going to get screwed in the long run. The GOP has been making that argument forever, and I believe there is merit to it. I can't see any merit to the "Obama will force me to reduce my business because I'm a giant puss" argument though. Anyone who has a business worth their salt and has an opportunity to expand (well smartly, plenty of business have overexpanded and paid for it, but that's not forecasting demand properly) and doesn't is awful at business.
It's certainly part of it. I like to think of most successful businesspeople as aquiring an advantage that reduces risk from the equation as much as possible. The harder you work to know more the better decisions you can make, thus reducing risk.
Agreed with everything except the last sentence. A lot of the non-expansion mentality comes down to comfort with risk. Most of us are very risk averse & businesspeople probably much less so. At some point though, these people decide they're comfortable with their position and unwilling to risk more to make more. That's human nature.
In the end though I agree with a lot of what I think your sentiment is. It's plain dumb to hunker down over political ideology alone, and I suspect the highly successful make smarter decisions than this. I'm not saying everyone who has made this decision is a pure idiot or anything, but many probably are.
I come here for entertainment. A certain amount of shock-value ..
I'll just say I find it funny that I built myself from nothing, run my businesses like I would run the government, everyone is successful, create jobs, pay taxes (income, sales, payroll, business, capital gains, etc) .. and I'm the one that's clueless?
From now on, I will speak cordially (or spar in humor) with those that are speaking through empirical data/experience.
The snide comments based on theory will be dismissed. I'll respond to any humor, everything is in bounds when said light-heartedly.. but I will have no more back and forths with anyone that has gotten there info purely from others but none from personal experience.
Pissed? Good, go do something and come back to report.
I'll just say I find it funny that I built myself from nothing, run my businesses like I would run the government, everyone is successful, create jobs, pay taxes (income, sales, payroll, business, capital gains, etc) .. and I'm the one that's clueless?
From now on, I will speak cordially (or spar in humor) with those that are speaking through empirical data/experience.
The snide comments based on theory will be dismissed. I'll respond to any humor, everything is in bounds when said light-heartedly.. but I will have no more back and forths with anyone that has gotten there info purely from others but none from personal experience.
Pissed? Good, go do something and come back to report.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
If you ran the government the same way as you run a business, this country would be in big trouble.
A business is all about making profit. Very few of the government's responsibilities are profitable.
I'm glad they weren't looking for a profit when they built the interstate highway system. Or when they built the space program. Or when they were rebuilding New Orleans.
Zero. I have enjoyed your comments.