Zero. I have enjoyed your comments.
Top Five Worst Obamacare Taxes Coming in 2013
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Zero. I have enjoyed your comments.
You're probably right.
I have not invested any R&D into my new products/services.
I haven't hired thousands of people that may have been underqualified, but needed a leg up.
I have no subsidiary companies that are loss-leaders .. Will NEvEr make a profit, by design, but for the purpose of finding better uses.
1.a. You've built in an assumption that every business mind manages each company based on a static baseline.
1.b. The interstate highway system had a huge ROIC, just as any elite business person would require. ...going back to role of government & shteef
1.c. Fiscal consolidation is a business decision & one this country (world) desperately needs.
1.d. Bill Clinton started the Iraq war but didn't have the balls to do anything about our airforce taking fire while protecting the no fly zone, all the while bragging up drone killing innocent Muslims by the handfuls. As much as him and his potential successors lusted for war, none of them had the balls to do it so we voted W. Bush. But go on
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
None of that is the same thing as spending billions of dollars on a space program that they knew would never see a penny of profit.
All of the things you listed were all geared towards you eventually profiting off of them (r&d, employees, better uses for subsidiaries). Many of the things the government does will never see any profit, and are not even going to potentially lead to anything profitable.
The E.P.A. is not ever going to be profitable. You may think we don't need them, but few would argue that they were never needed.
The coast guard will never see a penny in profit. But when a fishing vessel is going down 30 miles off the coast, they're certainly going to be happy when someone comes to rescue them.
Yes, people would still fish if the coast guard didn't exist. But it would be a much more dangerous occupation.
You're wrong.
The EPA is an analogy of self-preservation, the future..
The coast guard.. ^.
Perhaps we all think more in line than we think or give each other credit for.. We just need to recognize what we know vs. what we're told to know.. ALL of us.
Edit: forgot the space program.. I am a huge believer in spending money on things that create sense of team. A sense of wonder. And above all.. That there may always be a better way.
Sound too eutopian? It works. And it works for a country. Don't get pulled into the partisan stuff.. Stay focused on real truths, empirical data.. Watch less tv.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
You have some rather large errors with your facts.
The Iraq war was absolutely not started by Clinton, lol. If you're going to say it was started by anyone other than W, you would have to go with his daddy.
Clinton was not afraid to go to war. Look at Yugoslavia as an example. You could also look at the fact he bombed Afghanistan trying to get Bin Laden (and the republicans blasted him for it, saying it was just a distraction from the Lewinsky scandal).
Very few businesses would invest so many billions in a project that would probably not see a return on it for decades.
If the government was ran as a business, Lake Powell would not exist. Instead there would be a few more old school power plants somewhere in the southwest.
It's just not true Salty, I'm sorry. I own two companies right now that have never made a profit, don't think they ever will, do not feed a nickel to any of my other companies.. Yet, I think the people of my city benefit from them. They enhance the feeling of the city overall. Im sure you feel I must have some motive.. But no.. Just a good thing.
As am I, unabashedly. But there's a little word we use everyday, multiple times.. "sustainable."
Folks that are greedy, don't give back, don't care, don't take care of people, don't pay attention to the consequences (environment, for example), fail.. For a lack of sustainability.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
I disagree. The biggest corporations out there are all about profit. Apple is the most valuable company ever, and they outsource every job they can get away with.
Verizon workers had to go on strike just to maintain what they were getting, even though Verizon made 12 billion in profits, paid huge bonuses to all the execs, and paid out nice dividends to shareholders.
There aren't many companies that would willingly pay out billions to fund a space program that would never sniff a profit, billions more to build an interstate highway system (and if you disagree then why isn't Obama's high speed rail moving forward), and to rebuild New Orleans.
If you think a business would do these things, then why aren't they? It's not like it's illegal for a private entity to build a nationwide high speed rail, send a rover to mars, patrol the coasts looking for vessels that may need help, clean up toxic waste sites, etc.
The auto bailout is another good example of government needing to act in a manner that no business was willing (and Romney, the businessman, was adamantly against).
One of the last industries that was more community based than profit based was pro sports. But now even teams that sell out all the time and have been staples in the community for 40+ years will up and move if they don't get a new arena built by the taxpayers. Which brings up another good example of government doing what business owners wouldn't... all of these new stadiums being built by government...
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TheSilencer1313
Well-Known Member
How much do you wanna bet every tax goes up, no matter who gets elected?
Even though Obama probably has the lock.
Even though Obama probably has the lock.
/thread.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Even your own peer group... If they are planning on contracting their businesses just because Obama gets re-elected, without regard to what policies he will enact, then they don't care too much about the community.
You certainly can't run the government that way. Although, ironically, that is pretty much what the republican congress tried to do (Mitch McConnell flat out said their #1 goal was to make sure Obama didn't get a second term).
To be clear, my friends that have made these statements (and I believe it's a predominant feeling nationwide, within that group) are concerned about how the country will be run/ policies enacted. These statements weren't made at the beginning of Obamas first term.. So it's not a dem thing, a black thing, or whatever.. Whether they're right or wrong, it's a feeling that Obama, specifically, will create policies that will stifle growth amongst their business sectors.
Every business is different. Each target different socio-economic demographics.. each business owner has the right to read the tea leaves and deduce whether policies will either help or hurt their ability to thrive.
Nothing personal, it's just corporate strategy given changing circumstances.
Every business is different. Each target different socio-economic demographics.. each business owner has the right to read the tea leaves and deduce whether policies will either help or hurt their ability to thrive.
Nothing personal, it's just corporate strategy given changing circumstances.
What could be more stabling than the assurance that, no matter what happens to your business, you won't lose your health care?
I think, like any other human (including myself), you're prone to the congnitive biases that have reaffirmed the basics of your world-view, and to the selective viewing and interpreting that reinforces a position you have adopted.
That said, just as I'd accept a correction from colton regarding physics, from franklin regarding economics, or from Sirkickyass regarding law, anytime you say I'm misunderstanding what it means to be be a small businessman, I promise to take what you say about it seriously.
I agree with the first paragraph completely. We would all be better off bringing our views/experiences to th table, but with an open-mindedness for that to be added to by others were alternative views. There's nothing more frustrating than someone who is close-minded and has already decided all things into the future.
2nd paragraph proves you believe the same.
Kudos.
Definitely. I've made the case for social security fostering the free market by alleviating fears of failure--you always have your monthly federal pension to fall back on. Obviously there's a whole lot of moral hazard in the mix and many don't see the benefits outpacing the downward drag.
*Edit* I don't think losing healthcare coverage is what the impactful job creators are worried about. We pump small business like it's a guy with a plumbing operation or taco stand who are providing jobs for others when it's more like folks with high net worths. They're much more worried of losing $20,000,000 than they are a $1200/mo healthcare policy.
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