Kanter is ready to be an all-star

[Dr. Jones]

Doesn't matter. NBA relies so much on sheer athleticism, intellect, and court awareness that players by-and-large either have it or they don't. In the vast majority of cases, we know by the end of the 2nd season what a player has. This is Kanter's year to show whether he has an unlimited ceiling or if he will be just another good player in the NBA.

Favors is also young but I think we know what we have at this point. A defensive stopper with limited offensive weaponry.

I don't see Favors or Kanter with limitless upside. I also see neither has a multi-year all star. However, I think both have enough upside to be a very, very good frontcourt tandem in year's to come. I see it as a more of a great frontcourt than fantastic individual players.

 

[NAOS]

Favors and Kanter were about as raw as possible for two legitimate top-shelf prospects (I'm not including tristan thompson since he had no business being selected where he was; favs and kanter did). I think it is fair to expect older maxims on player development to NOT apply.

One thing is for sure, though: they need ****ng minutes and there is no question that Jefferson isn't leading us to the promise land.

Am I a fanboy when I suggest that neither Favs or Kanter are near their ceilings and that we don't know what they can be? Am I a fanboy when I argue they should be developed with Jefferson's minutes?

Answer: **** no

 

[GVC]

Dude, you're a fanboy.

 

[franklin]

Favors and Kanter were about as raw as possible for two legitimate top-shelf prospects (I'm not including tristan thompson since he had no business being selected where he was; favs and kanter did). I think it is fair to expect older maxims on player development to NOT apply.

One thing is for sure, though: they need ****ng minutes and there is no question that Jefferson isn't leading us to the promise land.

Am I a fanboy when I suggest that neither Favs or Kanter are near their ceilings and that we don't know what they can be? Am I a fanboy when I argue they should be developed with Jefferson's minutes?

Answer: **** no

A) How many prospects who were this raw developed into All Stars? (Jermain O'Neal is the only exception I've found)

B) Young NBA players with strong upward trajectories move all objects in their way. NBA players are not hindered by better players in front of them.

C) The time to trade Jefferson & Harris for nothing was last season. I feel the Jazz have nailed us to their "winning mentality" cross at this point. We should have Lillard, Barnes, Hayward, Kanter, & Favors leading us to another lottery with HUGE upside next season. But nooooooo, the Jazz F.O. doesn't give one damn about playing chess in the NBA. It's one foot forward at all costs & now there is a gap between lottery picks and Hayward/Favors.

 

[MVP]

Lol, so guy scores on couple scrubs in PRESEASON games and we proclaim him ALL-Star ready. hm... Wasn't Deshawn Stevenson scoring over 20pts/game in one preseason? Get of magic mushrooms!

 

[NAOS]

A) How many prospects who were this raw developed into All Stars? (Jermain O'Neal is the only exception I've found)

B) Young NBA players with strong upward trajectories move all objects in their way. NBA players are not hindered by better players in front of them.

C) The time to trade Jefferson & Harris for nothing was last season. I feel the Jazz have nailed us to their "winning mentality" cross at this point. We should have Lillard, Barnes, Hayward, Kanter, & Favors leading us to another lottery with HUGE upside next season. But nooooooo, the Jazz F.O. doesn't give one damn about playing chess in the NBA. It's one foot forward at all costs & now there is a gap between lottery picks and Hayward/Favors.

A) why do I have to talk about them as All-stars? Why can't I just say -- confidently -- that both will be better than Jefferson (soon, and maybe already [in terms of net impact on the game])?

b) there is no replacement for game experience. And, there aren't enough minutes to go around.

C) i agree, but this won't cause me to swing wildly to the dark side and start hedging my bets. Some have gone that route. And, Al is worth more than nothing. And, i don't hate what we turned Harris into.

 

[franklin]

A) why do I have to talk about them as All-stars? Why can't I just say -- confidently -- that both will be better than Jefferson (soon, and maybe already [in terms of net impact on the game])?

b) there is no replacement for game experience. And, there aren't enough minutes to go around.

C) i agree, but this won't cause me to swing wildly to the dark side and start hedging my bets. Some have gone that route. And, Al is worth more than nothing. And, i don't hate what we turned Harris into.

A) You can. I can't because they don't show it in games. Favors increased his production by two full points last season. Great players progress faster & using his 21.2 minutes per game is nothing but an excuse for his lack of development.

Lost in Kanterland didn't deserve the 13 minutes he got last season. Let's hope he can bump that up to deserving 20+ this season.

Favors may be a great defensive anchor some day & is a good one now. He will always need an offensive threat to cover his inability to score and the spacing issues that come with centers with no little offensive game. Enter Kanter Hope.

b) Why didn't he progress in 21.2 minutes last season? Do you think giving him 35+ is going make him look better or further expose his weaknesses and allow opposing coaches to craft ways to exploit them. (hint: the latter)

C) The Al hate is misguided and misplaced on him from some other underlying sentiment. Using him as some boogeyman getting in the way of this team's progress is not right, especially given his high character and happiness for being in Utah. Every rook/soph gets a pass for their garbage play while Al takes all the fault due to his age alone. Hayward hasn't shown **** & gets into trouble multiple times per game--future all star. Burks had one good summer game and obviously has few offensive weapons--future all star. Favors disappears for games at a time--All Star. Jefferson gives consistent production--sell him for nothing!!!111

Jefferson is the best player on the team. Kanter, Favors, and Millsap will replace him when they earn it.

 

[Hotdog]

A) How many prospects who were this raw developed into All Stars? (Jermain O'Neal is the only exception I've found)

B) Young NBA players with strong upward trajectories move all objects in their way. NBA players are not hindered by better players in front of them.

C) The time to trade Jefferson & Harris for nothing was last season. I feel the Jazz have nailed us to their "winning mentality" cross at this point. We should have Lillard, Barnes, Hayward, Kanter, & Favors leading us to another lottery with HUGE upside next season. But nooooooo, the Jazz F.O. doesn't give one damn about playing chess in the NBA. It's one foot forward at all costs & now there is a gap between lottery picks and Hayward/Favors.

Thats an excellent post. Even though I can never tell if franklin is serious.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I agree that last year was a bust in terms of stockpiling players for the future, but that's over. I don't necessarily agree that the Jazz are 'doomed' to being really good. The way I see it, getting rid of Jefferson makes the Jazz significantly better or worse. Being about the same seems less likely, but the Jazz aren't contending for anything this year. If they're better, great. If they're worse and get a better pick, cool I guess.

I see no reason to keep Jefferson, and Millsap has been better both years they've been together. Kanter seems poised to be there in the next year or two. And Favors is a different player altogether, likely the key to the Jazz's team defense.

And hey, Jeremy Evans can then get spot minutes in this scenario.

Whatever, though. I've resigned myself to sitting and watching how this Al saga ends this year.

 

[fishonjazz]

A) You can. I can't because they don't show it in games. Favors increased his production by two full points last season. Great players progress faster & using his 21.2 minutes per game is nothing but an excuse for his lack of development.

Lost in Kanterland didn't deserve the 13 minutes he got last season. Let's hope he can bump that up to deserving 20+ this season.

Favors may be a great defensive anchor some day & is a good one now. He will always need an offensive threat to cover his inability to score and the spacing issues that come with centers with no little offensive game. Enter Kanter Hope.

b) Why didn't he progress in 21.2 minutes last season? Do you think giving him 35+ is going make him look better or further expose his weaknesses and allow opposing coaches to craft ways to exploit them. (hint: the latter)

C) The Al hate is misguided and misplaced on him from some other underlying sentiment. Using him as some boogeyman getting in the way of this team's progress is not right, especially given his high character and happiness for being in Utah. Every rook/soph gets a pass for their garbage play while Al takes all the fault due to his age alone. Hayward hasn't shown **** & gets into trouble multiple times per game--future all star. Burks had one good summer game and obviously has few offensive weapons--future all star. Favors disappears for games at a time--All Star. Jefferson gives consistent production--sell him for nothing!!!111

Jefferson is the best player on the team. Kanter, Favors, and Millsap will replace him when they earn it.

I just have to say that as far as your "b" question, I think favors did progress and was our best player in the PLAYOFFS. When he was on the court we were actually about even with the spurs (look at the plus minus). Oh and it isnt just jazz fanz that believe in these young bigs.... if you listen to national nba experts they all say the same thing, that these young guys should be getting more minutes. You should try reading a few articles written by the experts or watch nba tv or listen to some sports talk radio.
Oh wait i forgot, the majority of jazz fans + most of the national nba guys and espn guys dont know anything..... Only franklin knows best, my bad.

 

[franklin]

I don't see Favors or Kanter with limitless upside. I also see neither has a multi-year all star. However, I think both have enough upside to be a very, very good frontcourt tandem in year's to come. I see it as a more of a great frontcourt than fantastic individual players.

This. There's no need for the Jazz to push this prematurely unless it nets them some additional young pieces. Losing can be a huge detriment to development.

For all I care, we trade Al and Millsap away for pieces and let these two young kids build. I'd consider Sap & Tinsley/Watson for Perkins, Maynor and their first/PJIII. Allows them to offer Harden more money and save on amnestying Perkins, plus they become even deeper given Aldrich is ready to start.

 

[cowhide]

How is getting Perkins freeing up minutes for the young guys?

 

[franklin]

How is getting Perkins freeing up minutes for the young guys?

Who's going to fill the depth chart if Al and Millsap are both traded away?

 

[NAOS]

This. There's no need for the Jazz to push this prematurely unless it nets them some additional young pieces. Losing can be a huge detriment to development.

We aren't pushing Favors and Kanter's development at this point. Favors did enough in the last third of last season to deserve 28 minutes a night. Kanter is ready for 20-23. Already there is a math problem.

For all I care, we trade Al and Millsap away for pieces and let these two young kids build. I'd consider Sap & Tinsley/Watson for Perkins, Maynor and their first/PJIII. Allows them to offer Harden more money and save on amnestying Perkins, plus they become even deeper given Aldrich is ready to start.

That trade is nice, but why Millsap instead of Jefferson? If you take their C, they'll need a C. Putting Jefferson's expiring next to Ibaka could be nice for them. Approved.

 

[MVP]

A) You can. I can't because they don't show it in games. Favors increased his production by two full points last season. Great players progress faster & using his 21.2 minutes per game is nothing but an excuse for his lack of development.

Lost in Kanterland didn't deserve the 13 minutes he got last season. Let's hope he can bump that up to deserving 20+ this season.

Favors may be a great defensive anchor some day & is a good one now. He will always need an offensive threat to cover his inability to score and the spacing issues that come with centers with no little offensive game. Enter Kanter Hope.

b) Why didn't he progress in 21.2 minutes last season? Do you think giving him 35+ is going make him look better or further expose his weaknesses and allow opposing coaches to craft ways to exploit them. (hint: the latter)

C) The Al hate is misguided and misplaced on him from some other underlying sentiment. Using him as some boogeyman getting in the way of this team's progress is not right, especially given his high character and happiness for being in Utah. Every rook/soph gets a pass for their garbage play while Al takes all the fault due to his age alone. Hayward hasn't shown **** & gets into trouble multiple times per game--future all star. Burks had one good summer game and obviously has few offensive weapons--future all star. Favors disappears for games at a time--All Star. Jefferson gives consistent production--sell him for nothing!!!111

Jefferson is the best player on the team. Kanter, Favors, and Millsap will replace him when they earn it.

wow, post of the year by far! Wish there would be more like that here, props!

 

[NAOS]

wow, post of the year by far! Wish there would be more like that here, props!

Well, you convinced AKMVP with that rhetorical piece of work.

 

[BYE]

A) You can. I can't because they don't show it in games. Favors increased his production by two full points last season. Great players progress faster & using his 21.2 minutes per game is nothing but an excuse for his lack of development.

Lost in Kanterland didn't deserve the 13 minutes he got last season. Let's hope he can bump that up to deserving 20+ this season.

Favors may be a great defensive anchor some day & is a good one now. He will always need an offensive threat to cover his inability to score and the spacing issues that come with centers with no little offensive game. Enter Kanter Hope.

b) Why didn't he progress in 21.2 minutes last season? Do you think giving him 35+ is going make him look better or further expose his weaknesses and allow opposing coaches to craft ways to exploit them. (hint: the latter)

C) The Al hate is misguided and misplaced on him from some other underlying sentiment. Using him as some boogeyman getting in the way of this team's progress is not right, especially given his high character and happiness for being in Utah. Every rook/soph gets a pass for their garbage play while Al takes all the fault due to his age alone. Hayward hasn't shown **** & gets into trouble multiple times per game--future all star. Burks had one good summer game and obviously has few offensive weapons--future all star. Favors disappears for games at a time--All Star. Jefferson gives consistent production--sell him for nothing!!!111

Jefferson is the best player on the team. Kanter, Favors, and Millsap will replace him when they earn it.

Can't say that I'm surprised AKMVP enjoyed this. Much discursive creativity and dialogic fantasy in this post, but that happens when someone envisions themselves as a maverick.

--Very few people in their heart of hearts in this forum know or think strongly that each one of our young players will be A.S.'s (if they do it's a whim)
--I think Kanter has looked the most promising (if his play continues into the regular season)
--Kanter deserved 13 minutes/game on his rebounding and draft pick alone
--Favors was arguably our best player in the post season https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?12367-Jazz-s-Best-Playoff-Performer&highlight=favors+playoffs
--You're looking at year progression not minute progression (after one year = Dwight: 2670; Stoudemire: 2570; Bosh: 2510); (after two = Favors: 2911)
--Favors' stats were just fine in comparison to these guys, and Kevin Pelton has likened Favors' progression to Bosh, J. O'Neal etc.
--Jefferson is one of the only players who can get his own shot on this team and is unique in many ways; I love Al
--Al is coming out of a losers mentality (see last year's comments in the Playoffs)
--We know exactly what we have with A. Jefferson, and it is not taking us past the 7th seed--period
--I tried to disprove that Al was a horrible defender at the beginning of the year last year with stats only to rip my hair out while watching him run P&R's on defense. One of the last games with Orlando last year is a great game to show this. He will never be a good defensive player when movement is involved, and so the prospects of being mediocre don't appeal to me or many others on this forum. If you want to talk "being exposed", then let's talk about Al.
--Favors has got a long way to go, but to react to him like you claim others are doing to Al is to harness the mindset you so vehemently and valiantly appose.
--If Favors gets major minutes this year and sucks, then I will be much more worried and have been during the preseason
--Now if you want to talk about a future All Star, let's talk about Jonas Valanciunas! Right AK?

 

[NAOS]

Can't say that I'm surprised AKMVP enjoyed this. Much discursive creativity and dialogic fantasy in this post, but that happens when someone envisions themselves as a maverick.

--Very few people in their heart of hearts in this forum know or think strongly that each one of our young players will be A.S.'s (if they do it's a whim)
--I think Kanter has looked the most promising (if his play continues into the regular season)
--Kanter deserved 13 minutes/game on his rebounding and draft pick alone
--Favors was arguably our best player in the post season https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?12367-Jazz-s-Best-Playoff-Performer&highlight=favors+playoffs
--You're looking at year progression not minute progression (after one year = Dwight: 2670; Stoudemire: 2570; Bosh: 2510); (after two = Favors: 2911)
--Favors' stats were just fine in comparison to these guys, and Kevin Pelton has likened Favors' progression to Bosh, J. O'Neal etc.
--Jefferson is one of the only players who can get his own shot on this team and is unique in many ways; I love Al
--Al is coming out of a losers mentality (see last year's comments in the Playoffs)
--We know exactly what we have with A. Jefferson, and it is not taking us past the 7th seed--period
--I tried to disprove that Al was a horrible defender at the beginning of the year last year with stats only to rip my hair out while watching him run P&R's on defense. One of the last games with Orlando last year is a great game to show this. He will never be a good defensive player when movement is involved, and so the prospects of being mediocre don't appeal to me or many others on this forum. If you want to talk "being exposed", then let's talk about Al.
--Favors has got a long way to go, but to react to him like you claim others are doing to Al is to harness the mindset you so vehemently and valiantly appose.
--If Favors gets major minutes this year and sucks, then I will be much more worried and have been during the preseason
--Now if you want to talk about a future All Star, let's talk about Jonas Valanciunas! Right AK?

Cmon dude, the entire Trade-Al crowd is nuthin but a tarde-him-cuz-he-sucks drone. There is no nuance. i built that.

 

[NAOS]

Can't say that I'm surprised AKMVP enjoyed this. Much discursive creativity and dialogic fantasy in this post, but that happens when someone envisions themselves as a maverick.

--Very few people in their heart of hearts in this forum know or think strongly that each one of our young players will be A.S.'s (if they do it's a whim)
--I think Kanter has looked the most promising (if his play continues into the regular season)
--Kanter deserved 13 minutes/game on his rebounding and draft pick alone
--Favors was arguably our best player in the post season https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?12367-Jazz-s-Best-Playoff-Performer&highlight=favors+playoffs
--You're looking at year progression not minute progression (after one year = Dwight: 2670; Stoudemire: 2570; Bosh: 2510); (after two = Favors: 2911)
--Favors' stats were just fine in comparison to these guys, and Kevin Pelton has likened Favors' progression to Bosh, J. O'Neal etc.
--Jefferson is one of the only players who can get his own shot on this team and is unique in many ways; I love Al
--Al is coming out of a losers mentality (see last year's comments in the Playoffs)
--We know exactly what we have with A. Jefferson, and it is not taking us past the 7th seed--period
--I tried to disprove that Al was a horrible defender at the beginning of the year last year with stats only to rip my hair out while watching him run P&R's on defense. One of the last games with Orlando last year is a great game to show this. He will never be a good defensive player when movement is involved, and so the prospects of being mediocre don't appeal to me or many others on this forum. If you want to talk "being exposed", then let's talk about Al.
--Favors has got a long way to go, but to react to him like you claim others are doing to Al is to harness the mindset you so vehemently and valiantly appose.
--If Favors gets major minutes this year and sucks, then I will be much more worried and have been during the preseason
--Now if you want to talk about a future All Star, let's talk about Jonas Valanciunas! Right AK?

I must spread some rep before repping you again

 

[NAOS]

I'm willing to (potentially) take one step back on offense in order to (definitely) take two steps forward on defense and (definitely) give our youth the minutes they need. The fact that we can pick up assets while we do this makes it (still) a no-brainer.

--they dont show it in games...... lolz