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The Jazz are exactly were they were expected to be

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doubledribble

Member
Before the start of the season most writers and fans expected the Jazz to be one of the three teams (Jazz, Mavs and Warriors) fighting for the last playoff spot with the understanding that Minnesota is a better team and will play better than that group. And lo and behold, currently we have the Jazz sitting at the 8th place between GSW and Dallas. The only unexpected thing is that Denver so far has been playing below their potential and they are currently in the 11th place.

Utah so far played exactly as expected: great at home (4-0), and bad on the road (2-6); decent against sub-.500 teams (4-2) and no match for the teams better than .500 (2-4). Most of the young players (Favors, Hayward, Kanter) improved somewhat, but not dramatically, the newcomers (Mo, Marvin, Foye) are playing on the same level as their previous careers indicated, Al and Millsap continue to be the focus of the offense, but, as has always been the case, keep having bad nights and retained their well-known defensive deficiencies.

So why so many people on this forum are despairing about the team's offense, coaching, Foye, Mo, Big Al etc.? The Jazz are exactly were most of the reasonable people expected them to be.
 
doubledribble said:
Before the start of the season most writers and fans expected the Jazz to be one of the three teams (Jazz, Mavs and Warriors) fighting for the last playoff spot with the understanding that Minnesota is a better team and will play better than that group. And lo and behold, currently we have the Jazz sitting at the 8th place between GSW and Dallas. The only unexpected thing is that Denver so far has been playing below their potential and they are currently in the 11th place.

Utah so far played exactly as expected: great at home (4-0), and bad on the road (2-6); decent against sub-.500 teams (4-2) and no match for the teams better than .500 (2-4). Most of the young players (Favors, Hayward, Kanter) improved somewhat, but not dramatically, the newcomers (Mo, Marvin, Foye) are playing on the same level as their previous careers indicated, Al and Millsap continue to be the focus of the offense, but, as has always been the case, keep having bad nights and retained their well-known defensive deficiencies.

So why so many people on this forum are despairing about the team's offense, coaching, Foye, Mo, Big Al etc.? The Jazz are exactly were most of the reasonable people expected them to be.
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Based on talent it is reasonable to expect them to play better than they have been. I expected them to be the up to the 5th seed. They still have a dominate frontcourt game and addressed perimeter D and 3pt shooting (glaring flaws last year) in the offseason.

What I failed to account for is the coaching...
 
Stoked said:
Based on talent it is reasonable to expect them to play better than they have been. I expected them to be the up to the 5th seed.
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Funny how no sports writers and virtually no fans of other teams ( i.e. non-homers) projected the Jazz to finish 5th. Probably just a coincidence.
 
doubledribble said:
Funny how no sports writers and virtually no fans of other teams ( i.e. non-homers) projected the Jazz to finish 5th. Probably just a coincidence.
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So being a Jazz fan makes you unable to be even handed and objectionable about the Jazz? ********.

As for your national media and "other fans" they hardly watch the Jazz. Go read their pieces on the Jazz and the majority of the time you are left wondering "do they even watch the Jazz"? I cannot give an in depth, non biased, opinion on any other team because I do not know about them.

So you can take your attempt at a condescending attitude and sit on it and spin.
 
Stoked said:
So being a Jazz fan makes you unable to be even handed and objectionable about the Jazz? ********.

As for your national media and "other fans" they hardly watch the Jazz. Go read their pieces on the Jazz and the majority of the time you are left wondering "do they even watch the Jazz"? I cannot give an in depth, non biased, opinion on any other team because I do not know about them.

So you can take your attempt at a condescending attitude and sit on it and spin.
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For the most part yes
 
Stoked said:
So being a Jazz fan makes you unable to be even handed and objectionable about the Jazz? .
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No it is very easy for the complainers to be objectionable. However it is difficult for some to be even handed and objective.

Seems to me like we make assesments about other teams and thin the Jazz are better than they are even though we see little of their team. OP is pretty right on. THe Jazz are pretty much where I expected to be, if not ahead. The Jazz had the toughest schedule in the league to begin the season, this coupled with the fact that we are young and have a lot of new players does not create an easy start to the season. Young teams do not play well on the road. This is to be expected. Let's see what happens as the schedule balances out.
 
I thought they would be a little bit better than they are and fighting for a 5th or 6th seed by the end of year. (and they still might)

Im not really dissappointed in the play of the team so far, i just wanted favors, kanter, burks, and hayward to be getting more playing time together so that we might have a Special year next year.
I know that we are not winning a championship this year, and i already saw basically the same team and results last year anyway, so i was just hoping for more minutes for our young future players to develop.
That is where my criticism comes from.
 
ekimebirt said:
No it is very easy for the complainers to be objectionable. However it is difficult for some to be even handed and objective.

Seems to me like we make assesments about other teams and thin the Jazz are better than they are even though we see little of their team. OP is pretty right on. THe Jazz are pretty much where I expected to be, if not ahead. The Jazz had the toughest schedule in the league to begin the season, this coupled with the fact that we are young and have a lot of new players does not create an easy start to the season. Young teams do not play well on the road. This is to be expected. Let's see what happens as the schedule balances out.
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We dont have a lot of new players.... there only like 4 or 5 teams in the league with less new players on thier team than the jazz.
This is pretty much the same team as last year.
 
kennykyle said:
For the most part yes
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I disagree. I see reasonable debates about the Jazz rage on here all the time. Players are picked apart, put back together and picked apart again. Same with the team.
 
fishonjazz said:
I know that we are not winning a championship this year, and i already saw basically the same team and results last year anyway, so i was just hoping for more minutes for our young future players to develop.
That is where my criticism comes from.
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It's definitely not the same team as last year, but at this point the same results. The Jazz's three point attempts, makes, and free throw percentage have all gone from almost last in the league.... to right in the middle of the pack.
The one thing that has changed, is the fact that with all of these three pointers being taken, our inside game is nowhere near what it was last year and obviously this affects free throw attempts.
I still believe that teams don't respect the Jazz from the 3 at all yet, and eventually the middle will have to open up in order for them to be guarded from the perimeter.

To sum up, the worst part of the season so far has been seeing Burks sit on the bench..... and the best part has been seeing DeMarre Carrol's emergence as our own Bruce Bowen. But will these trends last??
 
ekimebirt said:
No it is very easy for the complainers to be objectionable. However it is difficult for some to be even handed and objective.

Seems to me like we make assesments about other teams and thin the Jazz are better than they are even though we see little of their team. OP is pretty right on. THe Jazz are pretty much where I expected to be, if not ahead. The Jazz had the toughest schedule in the league to begin the season, this coupled with the fact that we are young and have a lot of new players does not create an easy start to the season. Young teams do not play well on the road. This is to be expected. Let's see what happens as the schedule balances out.
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Jazz are overlooked almost every single year. Then by the end we hear "That's just what the Jazz do..."

For example, last year. The Jazz were regulated to basement dweller status last year. We were projected bottom 5 in the NBA by some. We finished 6 games above .500 and got the 8th seed...
 
Stoked said:
Jazz are overlooked almost every single year. Then by the end we hear "That's just what the Jazz do..."

For example, last year. The Jazz were regulated to basement dweller status last year. We were projected bottom 5 in the NBA by some. We finished 6 games above .500 and got the 8th seed...
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This.
 
I think the Jazz haven't really figure themselves out yet. Ty just changed the starting lineup like 2 games ago.....and will probably do so again.

On top of that, you've got Al Jefferson who's struggling offensively playing a lot of minutes. Paul's struggling on shooting mid-range jumpers. So the 2 best offensive players on the Jazz last year have been struggling. You also need to lose a couple games at clutch time from Mo's bad decision-making to get Mo on the right page. Once you get these things going + the 3 point shooting to average where it needs to be (Marvin's shooting is off, Hayward's is as well) then I think we're a 4-6 playoff spot team.
 
If this exact team was coached by a better coach I can see the Jazz sitting on a record of 8-4...at least...
 
Stoked said:
If this exact team was coached by a better coach I can see the Jazz sitting on a record of 8-4...at least...
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I agree. At the same time though, I can see Corbin getting a bit better with his coaching in the last few games.
I just hope the trend continues.
 
Stoked said:
Jazz are overlooked almost every single year. Then by the end we hear "That's just what the Jazz do..."

For example, last year. The Jazz were regulated to basement dweller status last year. We were projected bottom 5 in the NBA by some. We finished 6 games above .500 and got the 8th seed...
Click to expand...
But that is not true.

Before 2011-12 season a panel of ESPN experts projected the Jazz to finish 12th. They were actually 8th (+4)
Before 2010-11 season a panel of ESPN experts projected the Jazz to finish 7th. They were actually 11th (-4)
Before 2009-10 season a panel of ESPN experts projected the Jazz to finish 6th. They were actually 5th (+1)
Before 2008-9 season a panel of ESPN experts projected the Jazz to finish 4th. They were actually 8th (-4)

Only once in the last 4 seasons the Jazz significantly outperformed the expectations of the experts.
 
doubledribble said:
But that is not true.

Before 2011-12 season a panel of ESPN experts projected the Jazz to finish 12th. They were actually 8th (+4)
Before 2010-11 season a panel of ESPN experts projected the Jazz to finish 7th. They were actually 11th (-4)
Before 2009-10 season a panel of ESPN experts projected the Jazz to finish 6th. They were actually 5th (+1)
Before 2008-9 season a panel of ESPN experts projected the Jazz to finish 4th. They were actually 8th (-4)
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Good to know we went from all the experts and non Jazz NBA fans to just ESPN.
 
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