The potential of our Favors-Kanter frontcourt? A couple of questions

[billyshelby]

A wing with reliable and slashing offense + a set-up PG would go a long way in proving you wrong. We should be using Al, Paul, and probably Marvin to get those chips.

But, yeah, if we were to lose Al and Paul for nothing, and sign nobody, and continue to run dumbdumb post iso horsecrap, then we will get hammered. No stretch there.

Maybe. But you're assuming massive offensive development from both Favors and Kanter in a very short period of time. One of those two guys has to be able to score reliably in the post unless Dwayne Wade is relocating. Because nobody on our roster at the 1-2-3 is a number one option, and we're not getting one by trading Al or Sap.

I've got no problem with taking a step back to start to start Favors/Kanter, but in that specific scenario, BOTH Al and Sap should be dealt so we can get maximum chips/players to build around that. Problem is: that's really risky.

 

[jazzrule]

LunaticWolf says: No, they blatantly ignore what consequences would come of their demands. They dismiss these as nothing when they are required of running a home business, let alone an NBA team.

This from the guy that thought Boozer was so great, because of his scoring and rebounding. Wolf will never look at things from an over all prospective, which includes defense. He never would admit how bad Boozer was on defense and sang his praises constantly, and he will never understand how Al in many respects is close to the same player. Good offense and terrible, most of the time, defense.

 

[LunaticWolf]

LunaticWolf says: No, they blatantly ignore what consequences would come of their demands. They dismiss these as nothing when they are required of running a home business, let alone an NBA team.

This from the guy that thought Boozer was so great, because of his scoring and rebounding. Wolf will never look at things from an over all prospective, which includes defense. He never would admit how bad Boozer was on defense and sang his praises constantly, and he will never understand how Al in many respects is close to the same player. Good offense and terrible, most of the time, defense.

Actually, the statement was that Paul was a much better defender than Boozer, and that "addition by subtraction" would make the team so much better. Sounds kinda familiar don'it?

Well, how'd that turn out? Sub 500 team by February, a pissed off coach, and star played that had to be traded.

Boozer's defense was a reason we were not a championship team 07-10, but it was not the reason, and simply dumping him in favor of Paul would not have made (and didn't) make us a better team.

Unless you are Lamar Odom with a 2.1 PER or a complete headcase like Stephon Marbury, addition by subtraction does not exist.

 

[LunaticWolf]

We should be using Al, Paul, and probably Marvin to get those chips.

Sure. But the time for that is not RIGHT NOW, like you guys are demanding. Be patient, and support your team going forward, instead of bitching about every little thing that happens.

 

[LunaticWolf]

In the recent past:

Carlos Boozer Uh. sign and trade TPE that led to bringing in Jeffy.
Andrei Kirilenko too large of a contract to trade in comparison to player skill. Would have had to bring in a multi year bad contract to dump, and probably give up picks too.
Kyle Korver
Kyrylo Fesenko HAHAHA, like we could have gotten anything for him. Hes out of the league.
C.J. Miles
Ronnie Price Had more value than Fesenko, but still nothing more than a second round pick at best.
Fransisco “Miyagi” Elson *See Fesenko*
Wes

Meanwhile, we turned Memo, Harris, D'will, and Brewer (Boozer) into assets that have benefited the team. So that's 5 successes and 3 (that we could have reasonably gotten anything for) failures. That probably ranks us in the top half of the league.

 

[Purch]

I read about every other post in this thread and am not sure what it's really about..

summary, please?

It was just me asking a couple questions about our frontcourt going forward

Lets assume the Jazz front office trades Al and Mo for an upgrade at the point. And lets assume they trade Millsap for a good backup big and a draft pick ( Or something lol, doesn't really matter)

Do they need a pass first pg to reach their full potential?

Is Kanter much more suited to being a first scoring option than Favors?

Does Favors have the abilty to be a Tyson Chandler/Kg level defensive anchor?


What does Favors do that makes him a better option than Millsap going forward?

What does Millsap still do better than Favors?

What does Kanter do that makes him a better option than Jefferson going forward?

What does Jefferson still do better than Kanter?

Do they have abilty to reach the production of Z-Bo and Gasol?


I already know where I stand on these two, but what do you guys think?

And it kinda got off topic..

 

[Purch]

Maybe. But you're assuming massive offensive development from both Favors and Kanter in a very short period of time. One of those two guys has to be able to score reliably in the post unless Dwayne Wade is relocating. Because nobody on our roster at the 1-2-3 is a number one option, and we're not getting one by trading Al or Sap.

I've got no problem with taking a step back to start to start Favors/Kanter, but in that specific scenario, BOTH Al and Sap should be dealt so we can get maximum chips/players to build around that. Problem is: that's really risky.

That's the key here. Trade them right now when people will bid highest. The closest it gets to the deadline teams will realize that their expiring and low ball us.

 

[GVC]

One of those two guys has to be able to score reliably in the post unless Dwayne Wade is relocating

Does it make any difference that Al has been the least efficient post scorer among the Jazz's 4 bigs (all of whom get a pretty big chunk of their shots out of postups) this season?

 

[fishonjazz]

Does it make any difference that Al has been the least efficient post scorer among the Jazz's 4 bigs (all of whom get a pretty big chunk of their shots out of postups) this season?

Wow thats a great question.... repped.

Im sure it will be answered in 1 of 2 ways.... Kanter and favors are going against backups OR kanter and favors have too small of a sample size.

 

[Stoked]

Sorry, but he is right. I repped him.

Like hell he is. Lunatic has much right to post here as you, I or anyone else does.

 

[fishonjazz]

I find it funny that people say we would have such a hard time scoring without al in the post and that favors and kanter cant possibly be as effective.

Uh....6-1 record without al? suck on that for a while.... remember the toronto game when we scored 133 pts in regulation? hello.

Kanter and favors would be just fine against crappy frontcourts and struggle against really good frontcourts for the most part.... just like Al and sap.

 

[Stoked]

I find it funny that people say we would have such a hard time scoring without al in the post and that favors and kanter cant possibly be as effective.

Uh....6-1 record without al? suck on that for a while.... remember the toronto game when we scored 133 pts in regulation? hello.

Kanter and favors would be just fine against crappy frontcourts and struggle against really good frontcourts for the most part.... just like Al and sap.

What are the 7 teams the Jazz played during that time? Where were the games?

The young guys need more time. I would be willing to see a more mixed role. It does not have to be give the vets all the time or give the young guys all the time. Their is a meddle ground where you go for the wins with vets and give the young guys that irreplaceable experience.

 

[orangello]

Wow thats a great question.... repped.

Im sure it will be answered in 1 of 2 ways.... Kanter and favors are going against backups OR kanter and favors have too small of a sample size.

I'm tired of the sample size argument. The sample size is small because that is what Corbin has decided to do.

 

[orangello]

The young guys need more time. I would be willing to see a more mixed role. It does not have to be give the vets all the time or give the young guys all the time. Their is a meddle ground where you go for the wins with vets and give the young guys that irreplaceable experience.

That is a great point. I just can't watch Favors get under 20 minutes a game anymore. There is no excuse for it. Yes, there are games that he struggles but it is no worse than the games when Sap or Al struggle.

I have said this before but Jefferson and Millsap need to be subbed out around the minutes left in the 1st/3rd quarters and depending on how the young guys are playing they should be subbed out around the 6 minute mark of the 2nd/4th quarters.

We are not using our depth to our advantage.

 

[addictionary]

What are the 7 teams the Jazz played during that time? Where were the games?

The young guys need more time. I would be willing to see a more mixed role. It does not have to be give the vets all the time or give the young guys all the time. Their is a meddle ground where you go for the wins with vets and give the young guys that irreplaceable experience.

I agree that the youngsters need more time to be appreciated as a natural starter, but that time should not be spent in the bench more than on the court with major minutes. see the problem is, these guys are the jazz future and they have come to a point that they won't increase their contribution level in keeping on playing bench minutes. now is the time to give them the real experience, when taking some serious risks for about 2 seasons but harvesting some rich crops in the end. this should be solved within the season.

 

[Stoked]

I find it funny that people say we would have such a hard time scoring without al in the post and that favors and kanter cant possibly be as effective.

Uh....6-1 record without al? suck on that for a while.... remember the toronto game when we scored 133 pts in regulation? hello.

Kanter and favors would be just fine against crappy frontcourts and struggle against really good frontcourts for the most part.... just like Al and sap.

So if we know what Al and Sap are and we have not seen the limits of what Favors and Kanter will be (besides already being much better defensively) then we not throw them out there more?

If they will struggle against the same frontcourts that stiffle Al and Sap what's the downside?

 

[Stoked]

I agree that the youngsters need more time to be appreciated as a natural starter, but that time should not be spent in the bench more than on the court with major minutes. see the problem is, these guys are the jazz future and they have come to a point that they won't increase their contribution level in keeping on playing bench minutes. now is the time to give them the real experience, when taking some serious risks for about 2 seasons but harvesting some rich crops in the end. this should be solved within the season.

I agree but there is no reason Favors and Kanter cannot have over 20 minutes a game other than Corbin. To finish one game have Favors and Sap. For the next Big Al and Kanter. Then Kanter and Sap and Favors and Big Al. You can still get there by mixing it up.

 

[orangello]

If they will struggle against the same frontcourts that stiffle Al and Sap what's the downside?

There is none. At this point it is pure ego that is keeping this up. The egobof Corbin, Al, Sap and the Jazz as an organization.

I will say this, Millsap has been playing much better on both sides of the ball.

 

[Stoked]

There is none. At this point it is pure ego that is keeping this up. The egobof Corbin, Al, Sap and the Jazz as an organization.

I will say this, Millsap has been playing much better on both sides of the ball.

True and he is the third bigman that I would love to keep. Sap meshes with Favors and Kanter better than Big Al. Sap can provide that mid range game and some hustle while Favors/Kanter do the dirty work down low. Big Al is in the same space as Kanter.Favors trying to do the same thing.

 

[fishonjazz]

What are the 7 teams the Jazz played during that time? Where were the games?

The young guys need more time. I would be willing to see a more mixed role. It does not have to be give the vets all the time or give the young guys all the time. Their is a meddle ground where you go for the wins with vets and give the young guys that irreplaceable experience.

How does it matter who we played or where.... are you trying to say that the jazz only play tough opponents on the road when Al is in?
The record is what it is..... if we played toronto 7 games in a row WITH Al in the lineup we would probably lose 1 or 2.
Fact is without him we are 6-1 which is a good record even if we played the 7 worst teams in the league all at home. (which was not the case)..... either way 6-1 is a good record, or do you disagree.