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Denouncing God

akirac73

akirac73

Well-Known Member
In the 1,987,423 trade proposals that pop up on this site, why is it that rarely, if ever, Mr. Hayward is mentioned? Do Jazz fans feel he is a cornerstone/untouchable player on the team? I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think Hayward will ever be elite/All-Star player some Jazz fans think he will become. He's the most overrated player on the Jazz IMO. The guy is equally as inconsistent as previous Jazz-Player Whipping Boys, AK47 and CJ Miles, yet he seems to get a pass. I'm tired of hearing Bolerjack or Harpring say "Hayward had a good game tonight, maybe this is a breakout game for him" then we proceed to watch him stink it up for the next game.

I hope the Jazz don't shut the door on any trade offers that include Hayward if it could bring us back a legit PG and/or picks.

That is all.
 
The return we'd get on Hayward wouldn't be enough to move him IMO and I think he has all the abilities you want in a swing man. He'll just get more consistent as time goes on. I doubt he'll become an all-star as well, but he should no doubt be a solid rotation player. Also looking ahead let's say we move Gordon how is the wing situation looking for the upcoming seasons? That's putting all our hopes on Burks.
 
He's 22, he still has a high ceiling IMO. Don't forget he didn't have a full training camp last year, with a new coach, and the year before that was his rookie season and he never played until the coaching change happened. Give him time. He seems like the kind of player that would want to stay in Utah, and thats hard to find as well
 
akirac73 said:
In the 1,987,423 trade proposals that pop up on this site, why is it that rarely, if ever, Mr. Hayward is mentioned? Do Jazz fans feel he is a cornerstone/untouchable player on the team? I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think Hayward will ever be elite/All-Star player some Jazz fans think he will become. He's the most overrated player on the Jazz IMO. The guy is equally as inconsistent as previous Jazz-Player Whipping Boys, AK47 and CJ Miles, yet he seems to get a pass. I'm tired of hearing Bolerjack or Harpring say "Hayward had a good game tonight, maybe this is a breakout game for him" then we proceed to watch him stink it up for the next game.

I hope the Jazz don't shut the door on any trade offers that include Hayward if it could bring us back a legit PG and/or picks.

That is all.
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watch him stink it up for the next game? have you taken a look at his game log? here's every game's p/r/a going back to the start of december.

17/3/0 (12 shots)
16/5/2 (15 shots)
17/3/4 (6 shots)
9/3/3 (10 shots)
17/0/1 (10 shots)
15/1/0 (8 shots)
8/2/1 (6 shots)
7/4/5 (3 shots)
11/2/5 (8 shots)
3/0/1 (5 shots)
19/7/6 (14 shots)
14/1/2 (11 shots)
17/3/3 (10 shots)
4/5/2 (6 shots)
17/5/0 (10 shots)
21/1/2 (12 shots)

a grand total of 3 games where he didn't produce at least a point per shot, and remarkable consistency. there are two absolute clunker games in that whole batch. 1.44 pps overall which is unreal for a month's worth of high-minute play. not sure where you get the idea that he "stinks it up" every other game.

that said, he shouldn't be untouchable -- but the price should be higher for him than for 90% of our roster.
 
I like the guy mostly because of his defense. Its hard to find guys that can play defense like him. Its actually quite amazing how good of a defender he is. There is two sides to the court ya know. Too often the defensive side is ignored.
 
theNBAnerd said:
1.44 pps overall which is unreal for a month's worth of high-minute play. not sure where you get the idea that he "stinks it up" every other game.
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That's a very nice stat on Hayward. For comparison's sake Jefferson has had 6 games during that span where he's scored less points than shot attempts. Our guards should be doing that more often than our bigs..... Here are some Points Per Shot rankings:

Kanter: 59th 1.33
Millsap: 67th 1.32
Hayward: 70th 1.32
Favors: 99th 1.27
Al: 250th 1.12
 
akirac73 said:
The guy is equally as inconsistent as previous Jazz-Player Whipping Boys, AK47 and CJ Miles
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Gordo's already much better than CJ ever was or will be, and he's not being paid $17mm like AK. He's 22, and above average among NBA wing players on both O and D. Is he a star? No, but he's a good piece.
 
dipship31 said:
That's a very nice stat
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Points per shot is a terrible metric; there are far better stats out there (TS%, PPP from mysynergy). Nerd knows this, but uses this stat when it supports his arguments. A complete lack of intellectual integrity.
 
Hayward just demanded a trade to Phoenix

Gordon Hayward @gordonhayward
Just landed in Phoenix man it feels good here
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My2cents-- I am dissappointed in Hayward when I see him standing around watching, it is not all the time but it happens. I notice it most on rebounds, loose balls, and the first few moments of transition. He is not the only Jazz guy to do it, and I don't know why it bugs me when he does it versus seeing Al standing there dripping on the floor.

Jerry would have said that Hayward plays like he's got a tuxedo on. I wish Hayward would play like he was wearing his slopping hog clothes on, or his Friday night, strut his stuff for the ladies and fight some dude 'cause he looked at you wrong clothes.
 
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Yeah point per shot sucks. Free throws and TOs use possessions as well.

I don't want to trade Hayward though.
 
Hayward is the ultimate team player, he does a lot more than score and I'm not talking about rebounds and assists, even though he does that too. He is a complete player who is fast enough and athletic enough to hold his own. Not all keeper players are stars, some of them are solid bench guys who help the team win, and if he just gets a bit more consistent than I can see him being essential to the team going forward.

Besides, his trade value probably isn't too high for the same reasons that he was booed on draft day. He isn't looked at as a big name player.
 
cctrackstar said:
Hayward is the ultimate team player, he does a lot more than score and I'm not talking about rebounds and assists, even though he does that too. He is a complete player who is fast enough and athletic enough to hold his own. Not all keeper players are stars, some of them are solid bench guys who help the team win, and if he just gets a bit more consistent than I can see him being essential to the team going forward.

Besides, his trade value probably isn't too high for the same reasons that he was booed on draft day. He isn't looked at as a big name player.
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Hayward doesn't rebound....
 
Comparing Hayward to CJ is just stupid. Just try to think back to watching CJ chuck (I know, it hurts). Hayward is nothing like CJ, at all.

That said, I wish we had picked Paul George. Who knew he would grow and become an all-star in just 3 years.
 
GVC said:
Points per shot is a terrible metric; there are far better stats out there (TS%, PPP from mysynergy). Nerd knows this, but uses this stat when it supports his arguments. A complete lack of intellectual integrity.
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How is PPP a good indicator for an individual's offensive play? A team sure, but a player? Also, I'd like an explanation on why TS% (Hayward's has gone down every year in the league as has his eFG%) is a better indicator as well.
 
cctrackstar said:
Touche... Wondered about that, but didn't want to look it up. Oh well, he's a swingmen, he doesn't have to rebound on a regular basis.
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Deron Williams is that you?

Jazz are 25th defensivley in large part because their defensive rebounding rate is ranked 24th. The swings have got to help once in a while.
 
Hayward's Holy Grail is 3-pnt shooting consistency. If he ever finds it, then he very well could be an all-star.

This is very speculative (if I had league pass I'd go back and review), but I think the problem with Hayward's shot can be summed up thusly:

1. the purposefulness of how he sets his feet. If he gets too "tender" here, the shot is off.
2. the over-thinking that goes into the position of his elbow... instead of just trusting and pulling the damn string.

When these two things are fluid and fast, then he is absolutely solid. When the slightest hesitation creeps into either, then he can be a mess.
 
NAOS said:
Hayward's Holy Grail is 3-pnt shooting consistency. If he ever finds it, then he very well could be an all-star.

This is very speculative (if I had league pass I'd go back and review), but I think the problem with Hayward's shot can be summed up thusly:

1. the purposefulness of how he sets his feet. If he gets too "tender" here, the shot is off.
2. the over-thinking that goes into the position of his elbow... instead of just trusting and pulling the damn string.

When these two things are fluid and fast, then he is absolutely solid. When the slightest hesitation creeps into either, then he can be a mess.
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I would say finding balance would be his ticket to being an All-Star. He doesn't have it when driving to the rim, and he doesn't have it when shooting anything that isn't a set shot.
 
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