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14 blocks.....and STILL lose the game by 10!

carolinajazz

carolinajazz

Well-Known Member
...just another reminder that blocking shots is overrated...and not the great panacea that some on this board think it is! The Lakers blocked 14 Celtic shots last night...and still got beat by 10 points! The Celtics got the ball back on most of those blocked shots...ended up with 28 assists to the Lakers 18 and pulled away at the end. This series may not return to L.A. Sure, Kobe is capable of winning a game on his own, but it's going to be tough to win in Boston and against the wave of players they can throw at him! He sure looked disappointed in that press game interview last night...like he was resolved to further disappointment and no ring this year!
 
carolinajazz said:
...just another reminder that blocking shots is overrated...and not the great panacea that some on this board think it is! The Lakers blocked 14 Celtic shots last night...and still got beat by 10 points! The Celtics got the ball back on most of those blocked shots...ended up with 28 assists to the Lakers 18 and pulled away at the end. This series may not return to L.A. Sure, Kobe is capable of winning a game on his own, but it's going to be tough to win in Boston and against the wave of players they can throw at him! He sure looked disappointed in that press game interview last night...like he was resolved to further disappointment and no ring this year!
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Thats the difference, when I recalled back to the lakers-jazz series. Anytime they would block the shot, I can remember the Lakers generally got the ball
 
Boston kept attacking. Their outside game (Ray Allen) was on fire, and that helped. But with every block Rondo, Pierce, and Allen had to endure, they kept attacking and kicking the ball out. They stuck to their game plan. The Jazz got frustrated a left the game plan too many times, we got flustered and lost confidence, especially Boozer.

Shot blocking is important, but it's not the end all, be all of defense. Boston showed you last night how to beat length, and how "on" you have to be to beat it.

Can Boston be "on" the rest of the series? I doubt it, but I sure as **** hope so.
 
Just because the Celtics overcame being blocked 14 times doesn't prove that blocking shots is unimportant. It can be huge in my opinion. It is especially good if you can block a guy a few times when he drives to the basket and he stops driving to the basket. It happens a lot. Blocking shots can be demoralizing for the other team and it can be a momentum changer.

I think the Celtics managed to win despite being blocked. It's like beating a team that hit 18 3s on 60%+ shooting. It isn't that hitting 18 3s and shooting better than 60% doesn't matter, it just wasn't enough on that particular night.
 
Almost every call went LA's way and they still lost. Boston was better than all 8 of the guys on the floor being paid by the Lakers for that game.
 
One of the interesting things about Boston's win last night was that Garnett and Pierce didn't play especially well, and frankly Ray Allen was taken out of the game in the second half because the Lakers were able to base their defensive scheme around ball denial on Allen because they knew Pierce and Garnett wouldn't punish them. The net effect, however, was that Rondo kept getting lose on the inside for innumberable mid-range rebounds and scoring opportunities because the wing players were giving Allen so much attention. That's part of the reason the blocked shots didn't hurt the Celtics too badly, Rondo kept snaking in and getting the deflections.

The block number is also a little overstated. I swear that Big Baby got blocked two or three times on the same possession at least twice and that accounts for a big percentage of the total blocks. That counts as multiple blocks but in reality it's only one possession.
 
Sirkickyass said:
The Gasol/Garnett out of bounds call definitely went Boston's way wrongly, even after review. That was pretty weird.
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That one was close but I thought Gasol should have been called for the foul and that Garnett probably rebounds it if Gasol does not hit him. How about Kobe not fouling out on an obvious foul on the break? Or ticky tack fouls down low on Gasol and then Gasol and Bynum mugging the Celtics and not getting calls?

Big Babies block was not even close to a foul.
 
Gameface said:
I think the Celtics managed to win despite being blocked.

.....ya think? :confused:

It's like beating a team that hit 18 3s on 60%+ shooting. It isn't that hitting 18 3s and shooting better than 60% doesn't matter, it just wasn't enough on that particular night.

...no team in the HISTORY of the NBA has ever lost a game while hitting 18 three pointers! :eek:
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...thanks for the "incite"!
 
gregbroncs said:
That one was close but I thought Gasol should have been called for the foul and that Garnett probably rebounds it if Gasol does not hit him.
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I think it would have been a defensible error if it had been in the moment but the replay was unmistakeable and it happened at a crucial time in the game. Garnett's hand was clearly directly in front of Pau's. To my recollection, Garnett started behind Pau so I'm not certain how he would have gotten the rebound or how Pau committed a foul there. And I hate the Lakers and love it when fouls are called on them.

How about Kobe not fouling out on an obvious foul on the break?
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To be honest I didn't think it was particularly obvious. He went pretty close to straight up and there wasn't any clear arm contact initiated by Kobe. I thought it was a good no call with the Celtics taking the ball out.

Or ticky tack fouls down low on Gasol and then Gasol and Bynum mugging the Celtics and not getting calls?
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I think your anti-Lakers bias might be getting the best of you here (and I think all of us have an anti-Lakers bias). The reality is that both teams had the same number of fouls called on them and the Lakers primary front court rotation (Pau, Bynum, and Odom) had 13 fouls called against them while Boston's primary front court rotation (Garnett, Perkins, Sheed, Big Baby) had 17 fouls called against them. And Odom got 5 fouls in 15 minutes! That's even worse than Big Baby's 4 in 18 minutes.

It's roughly 4 fouls per player on each side, while the Laker's back court had significantly more foul problems than the Celtics. There's a reason Kobe only got 34 minutes in this game.

Big Babies block was not even close to a foul.
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Now that we can agree on. That was a bad call because the block was completely clean.
 
carolinajazz said:
...thanks for the "incite"!
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OK CJ, how many 3s has a team hit in a single game and still lost? Plug that number into my post and read it again. My point was that you proved nothing about how much of an impact 14 blocks a game has. I don't think there is one stat that you can say "if you get X number of this you'll win everytime." No different with blocks.
 
What I think it proves is that there is a big difference between being a good shot blocker/shot blocking team and a good low post defensive player/team. Blocked shots are almost worthless if you can't secure the rebound.

You look at guys like KG, Perkins, and Sheed and you see 3 above average defenders who totaled 0 blocked shots last night combined and helped their team get a victory. Defense starts with the feet, moves up to the body, and only after that does it matter what you do in the air.

What it definitely shows me is the value of a guy like Aldrich over someone like Whiteside. While Whiteside is a prolific shot blocker, he is a poor man to man defender. Aldrich is no slouch blocking shots either, but he's also a very good defender on the floor.
 
You forgot about Pierce's clean block of Artest after Artest stole the ball on the pass to Pierce.

So far as the Garnett-Gasol call. I would've called a jump ball because they both were touching the ball. Though Garnett had more contact with it, Gasol also had one of his fingers on it. Why they gave it to the Celts might've had something to do with Gasol being over the back. Hard to know what they were thinking.

I would agree though that the Lakers were and have been getting most of the calls their way in the series.
 
Gameface said:
OK CJ, how many 3s has a team hit in a single game and still lost? Plug that number into my post and read it again. My point was that you proved nothing about how much of an impact 14 blocks a game has. I don't think there is one stat that you can say "if you get X number of this you'll win everytime." No different with blocks.
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...I guess it's possible to find out.....what's the record for most blocked shots in a game by a losing team....that 14 by the Lakers has got to be close! Same with the 3 pointers.....some basketball geek could look it up I'm sure....but I'd bet a C-Note that no team with 18 three pointers made has ever lost an NBA game!
 
carolinajazz said:
I'd bet a C-Note that no team with 18 three pointers made has ever lost an NBA game!
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I dunno if that's such a great bet, eh, CJ? Some team probably made 18 while chucking up 70, ya know? Just the kinda thing some loser would do, know what I'm sayin?
 
Sirkickyass said:
I think it would have been a defensible error if it had been in the moment but the replay was unmistakeable and it happened at a crucial time in the game. Garnett's hand was clearly directly in front of Pau's. To my recollection, Garnett started behind Pau so I'm not certain how he would have gotten the rebound or how Pau committed a foul there. And I hate the Lakers and love it when fouls are called on them.



To be honest I didn't think it was particularly obvious. He went pretty close to straight up and there wasn't any clear arm contact initiated by Kobe. I thought it was a good no call with the Celtics taking the ball out.



I think your anti-Lakers bias might be getting the best of you here (and I think all of us have an anti-Lakers bias). The reality is that both teams had the same number of fouls called on them and the Lakers primary front court rotation (Pau, Bynum, and Odom) had 13 fouls called against them while Boston's primary front court rotation (Garnett, Perkins, Sheed, Big Baby) had 17 fouls called against them. And Odom got 5 fouls in 15 minutes! That's even worse than Big Baby's 4 in 18 minutes.

It's roughly 4 fouls per player on each side, while the Laker's back court had significantly more foul problems than the Celtics. There's a reason Kobe only got 34 minutes in this game.



Now that we can agree on. That was a bad call because the block was completely clean.
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I think Garnett gets that rebound except Pau hit him in the back of the hand forcing the ball out of bounds, Therefore it should be called a foul. Instead they gave the ball to the Celtics. I don't know how their review system is supposed to work but Garnett could have easily rebounded that ball if he was not hit. Therefore to me the call was correct in that Pau's foul caused the ball to go out.

Garnett was behind but appeared to go straight up. Pau appeared to back into Garnett and hit him on the arm/hand that he attempted to rebound with.

Basically I don't think it was clearly a miss call.

On the Kobe call he was in the restricted area and there was definitely contact causing the player to miss the shot. That is a foul on the Jazz 99% of the time. I believe they let it go because Kobe had 5 fouls. If they go straight up or not that is almost always a call on the defender especially since he turned after the pass and was definitely not set in any way.

As far as my Laker's bias with regards to the perceived contact and foul calling. I'll give you that and concede the point. Because I definitely have a bias against the Laker's. :)
 
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