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OFFICIAL: Trade Deadline Thread

Yes and no.

Lets say the Jazz believe Al is worth 15 and Paul 10. The Jazz offer Al 5 yrs and 65 and Paul 5 and 50 to see who bites.

Another team offers Al 17 and 4, a max deal for a total of 68.

Paul gets a 13 and 4 for 52 million.

If the Jazz want to keep either, they will have to drastically overpay and they instantly lose all their flexibility and haven't gotten better or fixed any flaws.

If the market for Paul is $13m per year - then you simply let him go and keep the cap space. If he can get that kind of money in the open market, under the new CBA, then props to him. Kiss him good luck and goodbye.

See, you're under estimating the power of the new CBA. Teams are no longer comfortable throwing that kind of money around anymore, unless you're a legit All Star. I'm sure KOC and Lindsey are all over this.

If say we let Paul & Big Al walk - what of it? We sign a 3rd big and we simply start Favors and Kanter next year. Don't forget the strength of KOC to find gems like Foye, Tinsley & Mo to fill in the gaps. Players we can get with good value for money. Look at what the Spurs are able to find in the rough - Tiago Splitter? Boris Diaw? DeJuan Blair? Who are these guys? This is also what Lindsey was part of. This is what they make a living doing. Let them do it.
 
Frankly I'm concerned that they think they're going to get anything more than backups at that slot. Based on track record, it's not likely.

Wasn't that about the range that Bledsoe got drafted? It could happen. Tony Parker was picked in the 20's
 
If the market for Paul is $13m per year - then you simply let him go and keep the cap space. If he can get that kind of money in the open market, under the new CBA, then props to him. Kiss him good luck and goodbye.

See, you're under estimating the power of the new CBA. Teams are no longer comfortable throwing that kind of money around anymore, unless you're a legit All Star. I'm sure KOC and Lindsey are all over this.

If say we let Paul & Big Al walk - what of it? We sign a 3rd big and we simply start Favors and Kanter next year. Don't forget the strength of KOC to find gems like Foye, Tinsley & Mo to fill in the gaps. Players we can get with good value for money. Look at what the Spurs are able to find in the rough - Tiago Splitter? Boris Diaw? DeJuan Blair? Who are these guys? This is also what Lindsey was part of. This is what they make a living doing. Let them do it.

I like your line of thinking.

I don't think they let Paul AND Al walk. That's where we differ. Also, this upcoming FA class is so weak, whoever you sign will be overpaid. I DO think Paul get 13+ and Al gets close to or the whole max. That's how bad this FA class is.

I would LOVE the Jazz to let both walk. They won't.

Also, unless they sign 9 players to 1-2 year deals, they will be taking on "bad" contracts like Butler's. I think this whole "bad" contracts thing is not true at all. No matter what, the Jazz will have "bad" contracts this fall.
 
I like your line of thinking.

I don't think they let Paul AND Al walk. That's where we differ. Also, this upcoming FA class is so weak, whoever you sign will be overpaid. I DO think Paul get 13+ and Al gets close to or the whole max. That's how bad this FA class is.

I would LOVE the Jazz to let both walk. They won't.

Also, unless they sign 9 players to 1-2 year deals, they will be taking on "bad" contracts like Butler's. I think this whole "bad" contracts thing is not true at all. No matter what, the Jazz will have "bad" contracts this fall.

No I don't think they'll let them walk if possible. But I don't think he'll let them shaft us neither. Case in point - KOC let Mathews walk - that was a surprise wasn't it? All indications are that he's good for approx. $5m per, but KOC didn't think so.

Also if you look at the history of what KOC has done in the past, he signed Boozer & Okur in FAs, and I don't think anyone would argue that they aren't value for money. Matching of Millsap was good value for money. Same thing with the signings of Foye, Howard, Tinsley, Earl, all have been good value for money.

All indicators point towards them being prudent and not giving away free money. You've got to respect that and give them the benefit of the doubt, until they go out and sign a "bad contract" as you've stated. If that happens, then you can have a go, LOL..
 
I don't think that's a problem with KOC & Lindsey. Both guys pride themselves on developing young talents. KOC with the 47th pick thing. Lindsey with the Spurs, Ginobili and Tony Parker thing.

They just don't look at the position, they look at opportunities to develop un-tapped talent.

GM in no way develop talent. They just draft them, sign them, trade them. Coaches and teammates develop.
 
Anyone like Al-fouriq Aminu as an unrestricted FA this summer? Same draft class as Favors and Hayward. Good athlete who is mostly a slasher. Apparently, his problem is consistency, but if the alternative is Marvin Williams....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DrjvZP2li5k


Haven't really watched enough of him to say if he is a SF or just a tweener.
 
Haven't really watched enough of him to say if he is a SF or just a tweener.
Seems to be caught in tweener land. I'd rather have Carroll back as a true SF and then go out and get a young, physical guy at 6'10" or so who can come in and be the 4th big (assuming Paul or Al is re-signed.). If Paul AND Al are gone, the immediate need is a 3rd very good big to add to the rotation. Kanter and Favors can't play 48 mins each.
 
Seems to be caught in tweener land. I'd rather have Carroll back as a true SF and then go out and get a young, physical guy at 6'10" or so who can come in and be the 4th big (assuming Paul or Al is re-signed.). If Paul AND Al are gone, the immediate need is a 3rd very good big to add to the rotation. Kanter and Favors can't play 48 mins each.

Well, just perusing an old Free Agent list, Byron Mullens as an RFA sticks out. From the UFA ranks, JJ Hickson and Amir Johnson are intriguing as possible backups. Hickson and Mullens seem unlikely, since they'll cost more.
 
Hmm..92 pages of this thread all leading up to a quieeet day. Just how Jazz and Jazzfanz would like it. Everything feels normal.
 
No I don't think they'll let them walk if possible. But I don't think he'll let them shaft us neither. Case in point - KOC let Mathews walk - that was a surprise wasn't it? All indications are that he's good for approx. $5m per, but KOC didn't think so.

Also if you look at the history of what KOC has done in the past, he signed Boozer & Okur in FAs, and I don't think anyone would argue that they aren't value for money. Matching of Millsap was good value for money. Same thing with the signings of Foye, Howard, Tinsley, Earl, all have been good value for money.

All indicators point towards them being prudent and not giving away free money. You've got to respect that and give them the benefit of the doubt, until they go out and sign a "bad contract" as you've stated. If that happens, then you can have a go, LOL..

I agree with all you have said, and I want so bad to believe what you are saying. Here is my big issue. We let Boozer walk because of his injury issues and his getting "paid" comments.

We signed Memo to a big contract because he was a "loyal" Jazz guy. Same with Harp. I believe they feel the same way about Al.

They didn't feel that way about Matthews (btw, KOC was wrong on Matthews. That is an example where KOC missed the boat). Millsap was "that loyal" guy, but I think they have soured a little on him, especially after hearing Corbin's comments about Millsap and Favors.

Foye, Howard (who was NOT a good signing. He wasn't a bad signing, but he didn't help this team out), Tinsley and Earl can be called good "value" but they are far from essential. Foye is a good player, and I do want him back, but he hasn't led us anywhere.

So, basically, the only significant FA signings KOC has done has been Memo, Boozer and Harpring.

Now we come back to my original worry. Who are the Memo/Boozer/Harprings this year? Everyone knew Memo and Boozer were very good players with tons of potential. Where are those guys this year? I don't see any.

So, KOC/Lindsey are going to go into the offseason with their top 3 guys being highly sought after (Millsap, Al, Foye). I think they really like Foye, but probably look at him like they looked at Matthews; they want to resign him, but won't break the bank for him. That leaves Millsap and Al.

If you let Millsap and Al both walk, this team takes a HUGE step backwards. Kanter isn't ready to play 30 mins a game yet, and Favors can't be relied on to carry a team, the way Al and Millsap can be. Who can the Jazz sign as a big that can come in and start for the first couple of years, then transition to the bench or expire? Next year, if we let both Al and Millsap walk, there will be a lot of games where Kanter and Favors are both on the bench very early and cost us games. They are young, and they haven't gained enough experience when they had the chance (the last couple of years with Al and Millsap around to help out).

I highly doubt the Miller's would be ok with the Jazz getting a sixth seed this year then falling to 10th in the West next year because you let Al and Millsap walk.

I don't buy the S&T crap. What S&T ever brought back anything of any note?

I don't buy that the Miller's will let the Jazz fall out of the playoff race (see the last two years).

Either Al will be back at a max level contract, or Paul will be back grossly overpaid.

If you look at their overall games, and the fact that Locke keeps telling us how elite Al is (although the wins would argue otherwise), I am terrified that Al will be our "superstar" to build around. And we will be fed the line about how Favor's defense will cover up for Al and we will be awesome (although the numbers tell us otherwise. Al is so BAD defensively, and can do so little on that side of the court, that NO ONE can cover up his defensive lack of ability). So we will be hitching our wagon to an incredibly inefficient offensive player that does not make those around him better and a TERRIBLE defensive player.

It will be even worse than AK. At least AK played defense every now and then.

We have been going through the same crap since Bell left us to go to PHX and we got beat by SA in the WCF's. We were one piece away from contending for a title, and to get that piece we had to dump AK. The Jazz weren't willing to do that. Just like they hoped AK would get better every summer (remember all the lies we were told; how much weight he had gained, how much he worked on his jumpshot, how much Russia made him so much better, only to find out two weeks into the season that nothing had changed); we will do the same thing with Al.

We will hear about how he worked on his passing, his lateral quickness, his shot blocking (remember all the stuff we heard about him last summer. Yeah, get used to hearing that). Only to find out two weeks into the season that he still doesn't rotate on defense, he can't guard the PNR, he still forces up shots while tripled teamed (even when Foye and Hayward, two elite 3 pt shooters are wide open), etc, etc, etc.

Like I said before, I'll still catch portions of games, when players that might actually do something play until the end of this year.

I have been a KOC apologist. If Al is on this team next fall, I'm out. I can't take 5 more years of a max player who forces shots, ruins the offense, and doesn't play defense. I suffered through Boozer, I've slowly faded with Al. If this is who the Jazz have decided to become (slightly better than mediocre) then good luck to them.
 
Well, just perusing an old Free Agent list, Byron Mullens as an RFA sticks out. From the UFA ranks, JJ Hickson and Amir Johnson are intriguing as possible backups. Hickson and Mullens seem unlikely, since they'll cost more.
And the Jazz FO likely considered the same options. WE need 3 bigs. No matter who starts and who comes off the bench, you can give 3 players 32 mins each. And with Favors, that will be a stretch due to his foul trouble. Jazz will re-sign either Paul or AL. And that player will start along with Favors. Kanter is fine coming off the bench. Then the Jazz take the best big available wioth one of their picks and a PG with the other, unless they can find better options by trading those picks to teams needing to dump a decent vet to get under the luxury tax limit.

BTW, green, Memo was probably worth that contract if you compare him against other 5's. That horrific injury was unforeseeable. And Matthews is NOT worth what Portland is paying him. He's a nice starter, but his numbers don't justify the contract. There was no way KOC could have seen that offer coming. Portland stunned EVERY GM In the league and the deal was widely panned as exorbitant.

Put the blame for AK partly on Larry H. There was at least one deal we know about in place to get rid of AK and Larry H said no at the 11th hour. Then KOC put together another deal that fell apart at the last minute (remember the pre-season one that was leaked?). I'm sure there were a few more that were discussed.
 
And the Jazz FO likely considered the same options. WE need 3 bigs. No matter who starts and who comes off the bench, you can give 3 players 32 mins each. And with Favors, that will be a stretch due to his foul trouble. Jazz will re-sign either Paul or AL. And that player will start along with Favors. Kanter is fine coming off the bench. Then the Jazz take the best big available wioth one of their picks and a PG with the other, unless they can find better options by trading those picks to teams needing to dump a decent vet to get under the luxury tax limit.

I mean for the upcoming off season. Would 8 mil for Hickson for 3 years be a good choice? Would he get more? Would the Jazz offer that? Is that a good deal? Kanter, Favors, Hickson seems like a good trio.
 
WE need 3 bigs. No matter who starts and who comes off the bench, you can give 3 players 32 mins each. And with Favors, that will be a stretch due to his foul trouble. Jazz will re-sign either Paul or AL. And that player will start along with Favors. Kanter is fine coming off the bench. Then the Jazz take the best big available wioth one of their picks and a PG with the other, unless they can find better options by trading those picks to teams needing to dump a decent vet to get under the luxury tax limit.

.

There is no point in having picks at every position, even if lotto. Jazz cannot retain all of them when their contracts are up. They need to convert a couple of them into a high impact vet if this team has to make any progress. Unless one of the young guys(Favors or Burks) becomes a borderline all star or all star next season, they'll be in the lottery if they let Al/Paul walk away and rely on picks to fill the spots.

I doubt the Jazz even have a longterm blueprint for building a contending team. Lindsey is on record saying that Miller has instructed the management to "sell hope". Not a big shocker for those who know how the Millers and especially Greg operate. Its all about the bottomline. Do just about enough to get to that 5th-8th seed every year. Beyond that, if something falls out of the sky and we hit a jackpot then well and good. Otherwise keep selling dope err..hope.
 
There is no point in having picks at every position, even if lotto. Jazz cannot retain all of them when their contracts are up. They need to convert a couple of them into a high impact vet if this team has to make any progress. Unless one of the young guys(Favors or Burks) becomes a borderline all star or all star next season, they'll be in the lottery if they let Al/Paul walk away and rely on picks to fill the spots.

I doubt the Jazz even have a longterm blueprint for building a contending team. Lindsey is on record saying that Miller has instructed the management to "sell hope". Not a big shocker for those who know how the Millers and especially Greg operate. Its all about the bottomline. Do just about enough to get to that 5th-8th seed every year. Beyond that, if something falls out of the sky and we hit a jackpot then well and good. Otherwise keep selling dope err..hope.

Ding, ding.
 
I mean for the upcoming off season. Would 8 mil for Hickson for 3 years be a good choice? Would he get more? Would the Jazz offer that? Is that a good deal? Kanter, Favors, Hickson seems like a good trio.
Not bad. I'm not sure what his market value will be. Centers are generally overpaid. Hickson averages 13/10 in 30 mins per. That's decent production.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6bwiJGelTI

i think aminu's a great fit. maybe a 'tweener' but hes incredibly athletic and his 'tweener' status doesnt affect his rebounding.

hes not a chucker of any sort, 50% fg player, most comfy kind of wandering, not a featured guy, hes got a tendency to blend-in then explode. consistently will rebound and give you effort. on defense hes quite adept getting steals though you mainly see spectacular blocks in his highlights

at 6'9" hes actually comparable to favors. 1 inch shorter, .75inch less wingspan, 1.5inch less standing reach, with a similar vertical (2inches less than favors) if he joined utah they would patrol the air, up there. not a great shooter but is no liability at the line, 72%.

Disclosure: i am very biased in the favor of aminu, i was genuinely excited for the Aminu, Ty Walker, Tony woods 3, 5star class wake forest had in 08. i also watched Aminu totally obliterate espn's #1 ranked player Greg Monroe in hs.

regardless of how i feel. he will be undervalued next summer, you can book it. hes 23, plenty of room to grow.
 
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There is no point in having picks at every position, even if lotto. Jazz cannot retain all of them when their contracts are up. They need to convert a couple of them into a high impact vet if this team has to make any progress. Unless one of the young guys(Favors or Burks) becomes a borderline all star or all star next season, they'll be in the lottery if they let Al/Paul walk away and rely on picks to fill the spots.

I doubt the Jazz even have a longterm blueprint for building a contending team. Lindsey is on record saying that Miller has instructed the management to "sell hope". Not a big shocker for those who know how the Millers and especially Greg operate. Its all about the bottomline. Do just about enough to get to that 5th-8th seed every year. Beyond that, if something falls out of the sky and we hit a jackpot then well and good. Otherwise keep selling dope err..hope.
I agree. I've always been on record saying the Jazz need to concentrate on getting a Core-8. The remaining 6-7 players are then vets on mimimum contracts or young draft picks. It does no good to go 3 deep at every position. You can;t find PT for everyone and you can't pay all those guys. The problem is that Utah will never have a superstar knock on their door. So they better try the Detroit model of having ZERO major weaknesses in their starting lineup and a very strong 3 behind those 5. I'm a lot higher on Burks, Favors, Kanter and Hayward than you are. I think we're seeing the makings of a very, very good team. Add a good PG to that mix and blend in glue guys like Carroll, Foye, Mo, etc. and this team could start making noise.
 
For all my bitching today, I actually think we're in okay position as long as we can avoid some landmines in free agency (Al on a big deal, yuck). A guy like Carroll could be absolutely huge going forward because he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. We're one great (possibly good) PG and some development from Favors away from being a very solid team.
 
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