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Ramifications of our actions

I find it funny how Locke can talk crap about the fans booing, but yet did he mention the fans were chanting for DMC and basically gave him a standing O when he came into the game for garbage minutes.

The fans aren't dumb. We appreciate the players that show they care, and play like they want to be playing. They aren't going to be booed. And the players do hear it, and appreciate it.


https://twitter.com/DeMarreCarroll1/status/319660062983454720
"Tough loss..but we will bounce back..Got to stay focus..#JazzNation really showed me love wit the Chants.. Trust me I hear y'all!! #blessed"

So Locke can paint his company picture that we fans are going to scare away potential free agents. If they can't take take the heat and don't want to play like they want it then they don't need to be here.

wow that really happened?
really.
i dont have the stomach to watch these games at 4/5 o clock in the morning anymore.
it is utter horror.

if they did that they should also boo al and watson the **** away. chant for kanter/dmc/burks/hawayrd
 
I listened to the pod cast 2 times once before I read this thread and once after. I have no Idea why the OP would be upset with what Locke said. I found it to be right on. The 2 examples he used when he talked about the booing was last night were the team really was trying and putting out effort, just missing shots and when we as fans boo people like D-Will who spent 6 great years here making us an exciting team to watch. Nether of these situations merit booing from fans.

Now if the team is just out there not trying or loosing every game by 40 points then going to the locker room and laughing about is then yes they deserve to be Booed and I would be right there doing it.

As for the OP saying that we aren't a good free agent market due to the fans is him taking what Locke said and twisting it. He said that in the situation last night were the team was really trying and playing hard then get booed for it after they had just won 5 games in a row could make guys wonder why they would want to stay and play here. There isn't much to do is SLC in the first place and one of the only things the Jazz have going for them is that they have a very strong fan base and compete every year. So if what Locke said made you upset maybe you need to go look in the mirror. Because I thought is was well thought out and correct.
i caught the 3rd qtr only. so i dont know about the other 3 qtrs.

but if you call that effort go jump off a cliff
 
Two things from this that I guess I just took differently then you did. First of all at no point in time when Locke was talking did I ever feel like he was Lecturing the fans. What I heard him say was that he didn't understand why they were booing when the team was getting beat by a far better team and he didn't understand why the fans boo people like Deron. I never took it as a lecture or even a guilt thing. I took it as he was really confused as to why.

I think that is the exact reason that he brought up that he would be concerned if he was the Jazz FO about going into a full tank mode. If the fans are booing a team that just won 5 games in a row and were playing hard but missing shots against a better team, how would the fans react to a team that was loosing all the time? (see your Golden state example above) How long would they give the team to rebuild. We as fans see bright hope in the future and with the new guys. I think the FO does to but they still feel they need to put a team that is playoff competitive on the floor or they might loose all there fans because we boo them in situations like this were they were playing pretty well and had been winning.

As for how players react to the Booing and how Locke went on about that, pretty valid point IMO. He even backed it up by asking former NBA player Brent Berry in his pod cast latter that day and getting pretty much the reaction he was talking about in his tip off. So he isn't off base there.

Everyone can take things like this how ever they feel is best. But to me most of what was said in the Pod cast, talking about Last night and the former player booing made sense to me and I agree with Locke on it.

Using Brent Barry's opinion about Jazz fans made me laugh. The guy has trashed Utah and it's fans for his whole NBA career. Yes, it is true that Utah fans boo. It is also true that every NBA franchise's fans boo. There is little difference between any franchise and how much they boo. Laker and Boston fans should never boo due to the amount of NBA championships but even they boo players.

I agree that Utah Fans sometimes boo too much. I am puzzled when they continually boo former players so I think Locke has a point. It seems childish to boo Boozer, AK, DW etc because despite what you think of them they no longer play for the Jazz. Booing them shows you care about them. I think it is ok to boo them if they do something wrong during the game but it is immature to boo them because they left/got traded from Utah.

Whether Utah fans like it, booing former players simply because they left/traded gives credit to the mean Jazz fan argument. Of course this isn't any different than most organizations. Cleveland fans certainly were nice when Lebron left or LA fans were not nice when Kobe was thinking about leaving LA land during FA. Nevertheless, holding grudges toward former players doesn't help with the perception of how Jazz fans are perceived.

Locke is off base with the Jazz fans wouldn't support a entire rebuild. I think the fans supported a few awful teams after S&M retired. I think if the organization had communicated with the fans that they are in full rebuild mode once they made the DW trade, the majority of fans would have been on board with it. Anyone who follows the team knows this is at the heart of the fans' frustrations. To most Jazz fans it seems like the organization has no plans and they are trying to blame the fans instead of taking responsibility for their lack of plan.

As far as the threat of leaving SLC, I say go ahead and try to find this mythical city where the fans will always support the players and organization. Maybe it is in the same place that Glenn Beck is going to build his Utopia Americana city. Sorry but there is no place where NBA fans 100 percent support the team. Fans have a right to boo a bad performance or effort but I agree with Locke that booing former players every time they come back is only backing up the idea that Jazz fans are mean. Whether it is true or not.
 
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There are valid points on both sides of this argument. It's certainly not about players, it's about coaching and team management and lack of offense etc. I like to think in terms of outcomes. Talk about ramifications for actions Mr. Locke, you were trying to put out a fire with gasoline on this one.
 
There are valid points on both sides of this argument. It's certainly not about players, it's about coaching and team management and lack of offense etc. I like to think in terms of outcomes. Talk about ramifications for actions Mr. Locke, you were trying to put out a fire with gasoline on this one.

I have had similar thoughts about this too.
 
Sorry to those I offended with my Miller/Locke opinion post.

I'm still two rep points ahead from that post...
 
Maybe this is why he does tip off and everything else... So that he can influence fans with his toolness. Maybe that was the plan all along.
 
the part of Locke's podcast that worried me the most was when he said something to the effect of "based on jazz fans booing the jazz for losing to a really good team, i dont think this market would support a team that had to bottom out a bit" and "this is why there may be reluctance by owners/management to bottom out".... someone correct me if i am misremembering. I really hope that is him speculating and not based on any insider knowledge.

If this is what the Jazz orginization thinks, then they are idiots. Look at this post:

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?14568-Utah-Jazz-attendance-numbers

Look at these years:

2004 - we were the THIRD WORST team in the NBA: over 19,000 a game

2003 - we had NO SUPERSTAR, it was the first year post Stockton/Malone. If there was ever a year for flaky, front running Jazz fans to not show up, this was it. Over 19,000 a night.

2011 - lockout, the NBA gave the middle finger to fans, haggled because of their greed, and the Jazz averaged over 19,000 a night.

The fans are loyal. They have proven that. Now, the decline has happened recently (ever since Sloan was run out by Greg and KOC). Let's look at the Jazz. Since Sloan left, this organization has fallen apart. They don't play defense, they don't have an offense, they talk about being afraid of the teams they play in the playoffs (not reality, but remember, perception is reality), they play selfishly, their "leader" is probably the most selfish player in the NBA right now, there is no "team" concept at all. It is 9 guys trying to get "theirs" while Hayward is iced out, and Favors and Kanter rot on the bench.

The crazy thing is, if the Jazz had traded away Millsap and Al at the trade deadline and started a team along the lines of:

Bledsoe
Hayward
Williams
Favors
Kanter

They would probably be selling out every single game and have a better record.

There are two problems with this team:

1) Ty Corbin is either an idiot or has lost this team. He either doesn't know how to coach or no one is listening to him. Either way, he needs to go.

2) The Al Jefferson/FA mentality on this team. Foye is gunning for his. Mo is gunning for his. Paul has quit, is "trunky" and can't wait to get out of here. Al, who the hell knows what Al is thinking. I honestly believe Al wants to get a max deal from Utah.

The fans are not the problem, and the Jazz are lucky to have been absolutely screwed over in a deal for their superstar, hired an awful coach, traded for an awful "star" and then built around him, and insulted the fans to their faces with these petty "you're lucky to have the Jazz" lectures. Since LHM died, the Jazz have done everything WRONG.

The good news is, they are in a great place to win the fans over again. This summer is HUGE for the Jazz. They have already screwed themselves somewhat with their shenanigans this year and trying to get to the playoffs. BUT, if they can let Al, Paul, Watson, Tinsley, and Mo go and bring in a Calderon-type player (Utah would LOVE a pass first pg that shoots a high % and runs an offense), and a couple other solid players, this fanbase would clamor back to the ticket booth.

The Jazz also have to let Corbin go.

In fact, if all they do is let Corbin go and Al walk, they will be loved.

Us Jazz fans aren't stupid. And the crazy thing is, this saying applies here more than probably anywhere else in the NBA:

"It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game."

Jazz fans aren't dumb. We know you will have rebuilding years (look at 2003, 2004, 2011) but we still come. We stop coming when we feel like you aren't doing your best to build this team up. And no, making the playoffs every year isn't always building this team up.
 
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As for the OP saying that we aren't a good free agent market due to the fans is him taking what Locke said and twisting it. He said that in the situation last night were the team was really trying and playing hard then get booed for it after they had just won 5 games in a row could make guys wonder why they would want to stay and play here. There isn't much to do is SLC in the first place and one of the only things the Jazz have going for them is that they have a very strong fan base and compete every year. So if what Locke said made you upset maybe you need to go look in the mirror. Because I thought is was well thought out and correct.

That team was not trying hard. The only player that tried at all on defense was Hayward. Mo and Al, our team leaders, didn't give any effort at all. Mo coming down and chucking up an jumpshot, Foye doing the same and Al as well, with no ball movement, no semblance of an offense, is not "really trying and playing hard."

The AK/Arroyo team, that team really tried and played hard. That is the thing about the NBA. The talent level is very even, that if you just play your best every night, you will win at least 1/2 your games. There are three levels of teams in the NBA: Levels 1 and 2 are teams that come to play every night. Level 3 are teams that don't. Level 3 teams stay at the bottom. Level 1 teams have a superstar or three. Level 2 teams lack that go to guy. The Jazz are a Level 3 team. This team has so much talent, but the players that play don't care.

ESPN said that if Kanter played 36 mins, his WAR would be 10 GAMES!!! That would put us 6th in the West, just by playing Kanter. If you played Kanter over Al...I bet we are fighting/own home court in the first round.
 
I'll say it again, the FO has until the end of next year to right the ship before I totally side with the ones who say that we totally whiffed on the DWill trade. Having said that, I think in very rare instances should we as Jazz fans feel the need to boo our team. Booing during the DEN loss was idiotic. Our team had just won 5 in a row and we lost to probably the 2nd best team in the league. Now if we had just lost 5 of our last 6 and we were exhibiting a piss-poor effort while in the midst of a playoff run, then yeah, maybe booing would be called for.

It does seem like we have booed our team more frequently this year than anytime I can remember, and so I would say to Locke, maybe the fans aren't booing the players so much as they are booing the FO.
 
It makes sense to you to trade away the third best player in team history, at the height of his abilities, for young players... and then hardly play them?

This is why I keep saying that the results of this trade either mean one of two things: either KOC is really bad at his job, or Ty is really bad at his job.
 
... he didn't understand why the fans boo people like Deron.

I don't understand this either. Deron played hard when he was here and the team won a lot of games. He didn't choose to leave, he got traded.

Boo Sloan instead. He's the one that just up and quit on the team as soon as the going got too tough.
 
I disagree. Utah fans are terrible.

So terrible they have made the Millers HUNDERDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Even though the Jazz haven't sniffed the Finals in almost 15 years, they keep the Jazz in the top 10 of attendance.

Former players come back and they are booed.

Former players who the fans feel slighted by. Deron said he wanted out. He was shipped and bitched about it. Fisher, who everyone knows is scum now, lied to the Jazz. The players come to Utah, are adored, get to play in front of packed crowds every night, make millions, then whine when they don't show any sort of loyalty back? Boo Hoo.

KOC works miracles and he is booed,

What miracles has KOC worked? The AK contract? Drafting Borchardt over Boozer? Humphries over Al? Having two expiring Bigs that either don't want to stay (Paul) or aren't worth what they will get paid (Al) and getting nothing for them? Drafting Hayward over George (even though I like this move) while Hayward mans a team that is fighting for the 8th seed and George is an All-Star on the third best team in their conference? Trading Deron for a player that Corbin feels is our 7th best player, then getting a third pick, drafting a guy that Corbin feels is our 11th best player? Having the most LOYAL coach quit on you, and not being able to hire his top assistant THAT NEVER LEFT HIS ASSISTANT JOB BECAUSE HE LOVES UTAH SO MUCH, and making a TERRIBLE hire to replace that coach? Resigning Harp and Memo. The list goes on and on.

What MIRACLES has KOC performed here?

Greg Miller keeps the team and he is mocked.

He wasn't mocked for keeping the team. He is mocked for getting into arguments with Malone. He is mocked for thinking that Jazz fans are dumb enough to be happy watching a crappy team struggle to the playoffs, play the Spurs, talk about how scared they are of the Spurs, and then get promplty blown out of the building.

Ty Corbin makes a relatively successful transitions from a HOF coach and he is mocked, booed, and called an idiot. The team is trying to make the playoffs and they are ripped apart by a bunch of twitter hacks and posters, booed by some and ignored by too many. Al Jefferson is considered the #2 FA this summer and Jazz fanz can't wait for him to be gone.

Twitter hacks? Read this:

https://www.grantland.com/story/_/i...n-paul-millsap-tyrone-corbin-future-utah-jazz

It's not twitter hacks and Jazz fans. It is EVERYONE OUTSIDE OF THE ORGINIZ

Jazz Lost the starting Center, PF, SF, sg, and pg from the 2010 playoff team, and then lost the coach and #1 assistant but still have managed to make the playoffs last season and be right on the edge again this year. While still managing to assemble 4 lottery pick players.

Like I said above, they couldn't keep the #1 assistant that still lives in Utah and now currently works on their broadcast. Johnson loves Utah, and at worst, really, really, really likes the Jazz. He left due to the management's mishandling of the Deron situation.

Who are these lottery players? Hayward, who only plays 25 mins a game. Favors who only plays 22 mins a game. Burks, who only plays 15 mins a game and Kanter, who only plays 15 mins a game. Either the Jazz suck at picking talent, developing talent, or aren't playing their best players. Either way, the Jazz have a problem.


Jazz fanz booed Derick Fisher despite Fisher making what should have been one of the most storied playoff appearnces in franchise history.

Fisher's actions that last couple of years have kind of justified Jazz fans. Bad example.

We booed Boozer for leaving even though we booed him or demanded he be traded the entire time he was here.

The guy that was always hurt? The guy that said he wanted to "get paid"? We loved him before he did those things.

D-will was traded, for players and picks that we all love, and we boo him when he returns.

Again, Deron said he wanted out. He ran Sloan out of coaching. Again, Deron's actions the last couple of years has justified the boos.

AK brought energy and excitement to a City that out of loyalty had endured too many dwindling years of Stockton & Malone--and we booed him, mocked him, begged for him to be traded.

If the Jazz didn't overpay him (KOC), then we love him. If he didn't decide to change his whole game, so he could score more, we love him. It wasn't all AK's fault, but he definitely didn't live up to his contract at all.

Harpring missed too many lay-ups. Okur was too slow and should have played inside. Sloan was too predictible. Miller was both too cheap to bring in good FA's and paying the luxary tax for players that we all didn't like.

And yet KOC resigned them all at over-valued prices.

Jazz needed a new face, a new identity, they drafted Hayward, and we booed.

While passing on All-Star Paul George, leader on the #3 team in the East.

We were excited to be rid of Boozer, and getting a real player like Jefferson who blocks shots. Now he sucks, can't wait for him to leave. Boozer was fake we hated him. Jefferson is real we hate him. Deron was moody we called him mean. Hayward keeps his head, we call him soft.

Read above.


We boo Jefferson, we boo Mo, we boo Marvin, we boo Foye. We want them gone. Whoever replaces them we will boo them too. Hell we even boo the sorry chap Jimmer Freddette when he gets to play his pathetic two minutes.

Where is your mention of all the players we love? If Jazz fans are so terrible, why are the Jazz in the top 10 in attendance, even though the team hasn't been a competitor in almost 15 years? Why does the Miller organization use the Jazz to market their other business ventures? If Jazz fans are so bad, why are we used so often?

What would make Jazz fanz happy? We weren't happy with 50+ wins and conference finals, we weren't happy with rebuilding, we weren't happy with old system, we aren't happy with the new. So what is managment left to consider?

You're an idiot. We are happy with those things. We LOVED a 42-40 team that tried. We supported the third worst team in the NBA, knowing we would get a great lottery pick to compliment our hard working players on the 42-40 team. We don't like players that don't try. We don't like when the Jazz decide getting swept in the first round is better than getting better. We don't like being slightly better than average.

Greg Miller was in NY this week to be on the Committee of NBA owners who were evaluating the proposals from the Seattle and Sacramento. If I was Greg it would be VERY difficult to not consider selling. Whats that? He can't risk his other business's by upsetting the people?---The people are already upset, and maybe nothing is going to make them happy.

Again, you are an idiot. Greg Miller has made, at worst, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS off the Jazz. In fact, if you looked at their total profits from the day they bought the Jazz, I bet the profits are OVER A BILLION DOLLARS. And that doesn't include how he has used the Jazz and the goodwill of the fans to build his other ventures.


Yes, go Jazz.
 
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