Ramifications of our actions

[Ben10]

i had to laugh at locke this morning. does he really think that the booing was just about losing the Denver? the frustration levels are sky high for every single jazz fan i have talked to because of the psychological warfare the FO is waging on the fans the last 2.5 seasons. hopefully these "ramifications" that Locke mentions are that the team takes a critical look at why fans may be frustrated, which was the point of the OP. to fans, the whole approach since shipping off Deron has just looked complacent and short sighted. now i maintain hope that the master plan has been to get to this summer with cap space and then bottom out, but that has never really been communicated, only in veiled comments by Lindsey.

This to me makes sense. Good post Wham. Remember though that Locke was making the point that the fans were booing last night when the team was putting forth effort. I find it had to punish the players with booing when they are trying. Hard to seperate booing for all of the fusteration of the season compaired to booing for the moment. I do have to say that Depending on what happens this summer well tell us if there is a plan in place or not. I completely understand where the FO is going with this rebuild and why it really couldn't happen until this summer. With Al's and Saps contracts being what they were and not having any idea if the youth was even going to be any good or not until this year It makes sense what they have done. They couldn't get anything worth while out of those to contracts at the deadline without taking on longer contracts so they well let them expire. There is only one thing that has been bad about what they have done so far and it was GS tanking away our pick.

Now if we resign Jefferson this off season and bring back a bunch of the Vets we have right now then I well be right on board with the rest of you. As for right now what they have done makes sense to me.

 

[mellow]

I'm not saying it's not true. I would just hope the organization is asking themselves what they are doing wrong as opposed to what's wrong with their fans.

And maybe instead of tactlessly instructing their paying customers how to act, they could focus on developing a better product and communicating their long term vision to the fans.

I didn't listen to Locke so I am relying on what ya'll posted. So the fans are booing, Locke says something and the concensus here is that the Jazz Org. is doing something wrong.

I disagree. Utah fans are terrible. Former players come back and they are booed. KOC works miracles and he is booed, Greg Miller keeps the team and he is mocked. Ty Corbin makes a relatively successful transitions from a HOF coach and he is mocked, booed, and called an idiot. The team is trying to make the playoffs and they are ripped apart by a bunch of twitter hacks and posters, booed by some and ignored by too many. Al Jefferson is considered the #2 FA this summer and Jazz fanz can't wait for him to be gone.

Jazz Lost the starting Center, PF, SF, sg, and pg from the 2010 playoff team, and then lost the coach and #1 assistant but still have managed to make the playoffs last season and be right on the edge again this year. While still managing to assemble 4 lottery pick players.


Jazz fanz booed Derick Fisher despite Fisher making what should have been one of the most storied playoff appearnces in franchise history.

We booed Boozer for leaving even though we booed him or demanded he be traded the entire time he was here.

D-will was traded, for players and picks that we all love, and we boo him when he returns.

AK brought energy and excitement to a City that out of loyalty had endured too many dwindling years of Stockton & Malone--and we booed him, mocked him, begged for him to be traded.

Harpring missed too many lay-ups. Okur was too slow and should have played inside. Sloan was too predictible. Miller was both too cheap to bring in good FA's and paying the luxary tax for players that we all didn't like.

Jazz needed a new face, a new identity, they drafted Hayward, and we booed.

We were excited to be rid of Boozer, and getting a real player like Jefferson who blocks shots. Now he sucks, can't wait for him to leave. Boozer was fake we hated him. Jefferson is real we hate him. Deron was moody we called him mean. Hayward keeps his head, we call him soft.


We boo Jefferson, we boo Mo, we boo Marvin, we boo Foye. We want them gone. Whoever replaces them we will boo them too. Hell we even boo the sorry chap Jimmer Freddette when he gets to play his pathetic two minutes.

What would make Jazz fanz happy? We weren't happy with 50+ wins and conference finals, we weren't happy with rebuilding, we weren't happy with old system, we aren't happy with the new. So what is managment left to consider?

Greg Miller was in NY this week to be on the Committee of NBA owners who were evaluating the proposals from the Seattle and Sacramento. If I was Greg it would be VERY difficult to not consider selling. Whats that? He can't risk his other business's by upsetting the people?---The people are already upset, and maybe nothing is going to make them happy.

Go Jazz.

 

[Ben10]

I didn't listen to Locke so I am relying on what ya'll posted. So the fans are booing, Locke says something and the concensus here is that the Jazz Org. is doing something wrong.

I disagree. Utah fans are terrible. Former players come back and they are booed. KOC works miracles and he is booed, Greg Miller keeps the team and he is mocked. Ty Corbin makes a relatively successful transitions from a HOF coach and he is mocked, booed, and called an idiot. The team is trying to make the playoffs and they are ripped apart by a bunch of twitter hacks and posters, booed by some and ignored by too many. Al Jefferson is considered the #2 FA this summer and Jazz fanz can't wait for him to be gone.

Jazz Lost the starting Center, PF, SF, sg, and pg from the 2010 playoff team, and then lost the coach and #1 assistant but still have managed to make the playoffs last season and be right on the edge again this year. While still managing to assemble 4 lottery pick players.

Greg Miller was in NY this week as part of the committee of 10-owners.


Jazz fanz booed Derick Fisher despite Fisher making what should have been one of the most storied playoff appearnces in franchise history.

We booed Boozer for leaving even though we booed him or demanded he be traded the entire time he was here.

D-will was traded, for players and picks that we all love, and we boo him when he returns.

AK brought energy and excitement to a City that out of loyalty had endured too many dwindling years of Stockton & Malone--and we booed him, mocked him, begged for him to be traded.

Harpring missed too many lay-ups. Okur was too slow and should have played inside. Sloan was too predictible. Miller was both too cheap to bring in good FA's and paying the luxary tax for players that we all didn't like.

Jazz needed a new face, a new identity, they drafted Hayward, and we booed.

We were excited to be rid of Boozer, and getting a real player like Jefferson who blocks shots. Now he sucks, can't wait for him to leave. Boozer was fake we hated him. Jefferson is real we hate him. Deron was moody we called him mean. Hayward keeps his head, we call him soft.


We boo Jefferson, we boo Mo, we boo Marvin, we boo Foye. We want them gone. Whoever replaces them we will boo them too. Hell we even boo the sorry chap Jimmer Freddette when he gets to play his pathetic two minutes.

What would make Jazz fanz happy? We weren't happy with 50+ wins and conference finals, we weren't happy with rebuilding, we weren't happy with old system, we aren't happy with the new. So what is managment left to consider?

Greg Miller was in NY this week to be on the Committee of NBA owners who were evaluating the proposals from the Seattle and Sacramento. If I was Greg it would be VERY difficult to not consider selling. Whats that? He can't risk his other business's by upsetting the people?---The people are already upset, and nothing is going to make them happy.

Go Jazz.

A lot of the same points I was trying to make. great post. Reped

 

[The Midnight]

This to me makes sense. Good post Wham. Remember though that Locke was making the point that the fans were booing last night when the team was putting forth effort. I find it had to punish the players with booing when they are trying. Hard to seperate booing for all of the fusteration of the season compaired to booing for the moment. I do have to say that Depending on what happens this summer well tell us if there is a plan in place or not. I completely understand where the FO is going with this rebuild and why it really couldn't happen until this summer. With Al's and Saps contracts being what they were and not having any idea if the youth was even going to be any good or not until this year It makes sense what they have done. They couldn't get anything worth while out of those to contracts at the deadline without taking on longer contracts so they well let them expire. There is only one thing that has been bad about what they have done so far and it was GS tanking away our pick.

Now if we resign Jefferson this off season and bring back a bunch of the Vets we have right now then I well be right on board with the rest of you. As for right now what they have done makes sense to me.

Yes. But us fans need to put the pressure on KOC/Lindsey to "have a plan" and "execute" that plan.

Gordon Monson asked KOC 3 days ago something along the line of "do you have a plan this offseason"? KOC's reply was, "Yes, we have about 5 options that we're ready to pull the trigger on this Summer".

That's a good sign. It shows that they're not resting on their laurels. They need to feel the heat from us fans wanting a clear vision for this ball club going forward. Jazz fans are educated fans and KOC knows that, and I think something is brewing this Summer.

 

[Ben10]

Yes. But us fans need to put the pressure on KOC/Lindsey to "have a plan" and "execute" that plan.

Gordon Monson asked KOC 3 days ago something along the line of "do you have a plan this offseason"? KOC's reply was, "Yes, we have about 5 options that we're ready to pull the trigger on this Summer".

That's a good sign. It shows that they're not resting on their laurels. They need to feel the heat from us fans wanting a clear vision for this ball club going forward. Jazz fans are educated fans and KOC knows that, and I think something is brewing this Summer.

To my point Nick. I think they have a very clear plan. And I think they are executing it. (other than not getting the GS pick last year). Just because they don't come out and announce to the fans what there plan is and what they are doing don't mean its not there. Getting to this summer with what they loose and now that they know what they have in the Core 4 was part of that. Not taking on more money past this next year was also a part of it. This summer to me well tell us what that plan is and then I think we can decide if heads need to roll or not.

 

[Getting Traded]

I didn't listen to Locke so I am relying on what ya'll posted. So the fans are booing, Locke says something and the concensus here is that the Jazz Org. is doing something wrong.

I disagree. Utah fans are terrible. Former players come back and they are booed. KOC works miracles and he is booed, Greg Miller keeps the team and he is mocked. Ty Corbin makes a relatively successful transitions from a HOF coach and he is mocked, booed, and called an idiot. The team is trying to make the playoffs and they are ripped apart by a bunch of twitter hacks and posters, booed by some and ignored by too many. Al Jefferson is considered the #2 FA this summer and Jazz fanz can't wait for him to be gone.

Jazz Lost the starting Center, PF, SF, sg, and pg from the 2010 playoff team, and then lost the coach and #1 assistant but still have managed to make the playoffs last season and be right on the edge again this year. While still managing to assemble 4 lottery pick players.


Jazz fanz booed Derick Fisher despite Fisher making what should have been one of the most storied playoff appearnces in franchise history.

We booed Boozer for leaving even though we booed him or demanded he be traded the entire time he was here.

D-will was traded, for players and picks that we all love, and we boo him when he returns.

AK brought energy and excitement to a City that out of loyalty had endured too many dwindling years of Stockton & Malone--and we booed him, mocked him, begged for him to be traded.

Harpring missed too many lay-ups. Okur was too slow and should have played inside. Sloan was too predictible. Miller was both too cheap to bring in good FA's and paying the luxary tax for players that we all didn't like.

Jazz needed a new face, a new identity, they drafted Hayward, and we booed.

We were excited to be rid of Boozer, and getting a real player like Jefferson who blocks shots. Now he sucks, can't wait for him to leave. Boozer was fake we hated him. Jefferson is real we hate him. Deron was moody we called him mean. Hayward keeps his head, we call him soft.


We boo Jefferson, we boo Mo, we boo Marvin, we boo Foye. We want them gone. Whoever replaces them we will boo them too. Hell we even boo the sorry chap Jimmer Freddette when he gets to play his pathetic two minutes.

What would make Jazz fanz happy? We weren't happy with 50+ wins and conference finals, we weren't happy with rebuilding, we weren't happy with old system, we aren't happy with the new. So what is managment left to consider?

Greg Miller was in NY this week to be on the Committee of NBA owners who were evaluating the proposals from the Seattle and Sacramento. If I was Greg it would be VERY difficult to not consider selling. Whats that? He can't risk his other business's by upsetting the people?---The people are already upset, and maybe nothing is going to make them happy.

Go Jazz.

Your overall take is commendable, but if you examine the details, you're way off the mark in many cases. Many of the people you identified were actually booed for valid reasons.

 

[Sandy Braille]

We could be worse David Locke.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to scootsy again.

 

[mct]

I listened to the pod cast 2 times once before I read this thread and once after. I have no Idea why the OP would be upset with what Locke said. I found it to be right on. The 2 examples he used when he talked about the booing was last night were the team really was trying and putting out effort, just missing shots and when we as fans boo people like D-Will who spent 6 great years here making us an exciting team to watch. Nether of these situations merit booing from fans.

Now if the team is just out there not trying or loosing every game by 40 points then going to the locker room and laughing about is then yes they deserve to be Booed and I would be right there doing it.

As for the OP saying that we aren't a good free agent market due to the fans is him taking what Locke said and twisting it. He said that in the situation last night were the team was really trying and playing hard then get booed for it after they had just won 5 games in a row could make guys wonder why they would want to stay and play here. There isn't much to do is SLC in the first place and one of the only things the Jazz have going for them is that they have a very strong fan base and compete every year. So if what Locke said made you upset maybe you need to go look in the mirror. Because I thought is was well thought out and correct.

I didn't boo Deron, and I wouldn't have booed last night. I just don't think it's cool of Locke to lecture the fans. He even went so far as to suggest this fanbase isn't strong or mature enough for the organization to remain viable during a tanking season.

I don't believe any good can come from guilt tripping the fans. It's the same crap the Maloofs pulled on Kings fans. Basically said they needed to move the team because the fans had stopped showing up. These were the same fans that sold out Arco for years, and yet when the ownership goes broke and management systematically reduces the team to one that has no hope of competing in the future, somehow it's the fans' fault? Not only do they have to lose their team but they have to feel guilty about it?

It's true Utah fans have had it good for a while. We probably could stand to be more positive. I went to the Portland game, sat lower bowl for only $18, and even during that win there wasn't nearly the same excitement in the stands as I remember from years past. Locke attributes this downturn in our behavior to some mixture of the bad economy and our own spoiled natures, and maybe that's some of it, but I would appreciate it if instead of chastising the fans for booing that the Jazz would admit that it's on them to build team that inspires fans to cheer instead.

I want to add that it's not about the players at all. I don't blame Jefferson, Millsap, Foye, or Mo. I think they are playing hard and are victims in this situation as well. As a fan I just want a glimpse into the future of this team, and how can they, four expiring contracts, be expected to provide that?

 

[YB85]

When it comes to the Jazz, I'm too apathetic to be mean and bitter. I didn't boo last night because I was already on my way home.

 

[orangello]

When it comes to the Jazz, I'm too apathetic to be mean and bitter. I didn't boo last night because I was already on my way home.

Is that worse?

 

[mct]

I didn't listen to Locke so I am relying on what ya'll posted. So the fans are booing, Locke says something and the concensus here is that the Jazz Org. is doing something wrong.

I disagree. Utah fans are terrible. Former players come back and they are booed. KOC works miracles and he is booed, Greg Miller keeps the team and he is mocked. Ty Corbin makes a relatively successful transitions from a HOF coach and he is mocked, booed, and called an idiot. The team is trying to make the playoffs and they are ripped apart by a bunch of twitter hacks and posters, booed by some and ignored by too many. Al Jefferson is considered the #2 FA this summer and Jazz fanz can't wait for him to be gone.

Jazz Lost the starting Center, PF, SF, sg, and pg from the 2010 playoff team, and then lost the coach and #1 assistant but still have managed to make the playoffs last season and be right on the edge again this year. While still managing to assemble 4 lottery pick players.


Jazz fanz booed Derick Fisher despite Fisher making what should have been one of the most storied playoff appearnces in franchise history.

We booed Boozer for leaving even though we booed him or demanded he be traded the entire time he was here.

D-will was traded, for players and picks that we all love, and we boo him when he returns.

AK brought energy and excitement to a City that out of loyalty had endured too many dwindling years of Stockton & Malone--and we booed him, mocked him, begged for him to be traded.

Harpring missed too many lay-ups. Okur was too slow and should have played inside. Sloan was too predictible. Miller was both too cheap to bring in good FA's and paying the luxary tax for players that we all didn't like.

Jazz needed a new face, a new identity, they drafted Hayward, and we booed.

We were excited to be rid of Boozer, and getting a real player like Jefferson who blocks shots. Now he sucks, can't wait for him to leave. Boozer was fake we hated him. Jefferson is real we hate him. Deron was moody we called him mean. Hayward keeps his head, we call him soft.


We boo Jefferson, we boo Mo, we boo Marvin, we boo Foye. We want them gone. Whoever replaces them we will boo them too. Hell we even boo the sorry chap Jimmer Freddette when he gets to play his pathetic two minutes.

What would make Jazz fanz happy? We weren't happy with 50+ wins and conference finals, we weren't happy with rebuilding, we weren't happy with old system, we aren't happy with the new. So what is managment left to consider?

Greg Miller was in NY this week to be on the Committee of NBA owners who were evaluating the proposals from the Seattle and Sacramento. If I was Greg it would be VERY difficult to not consider selling. Whats that? He can't risk his other business's by upsetting the people?---The people are already upset, and maybe nothing is going to make them happy.

Go Jazz.

Fans boo sometimes. I refuse to believe it's to do with the geography they live in.

Last year Golden State fans booed their owner during the ceremony to retire Chris Mullin's jersey. Rick Barry got on the microphone and basically told them to can it. The national media called them out for their lack of class. It wasn't Golden State's proudest moment, sure, but it's such a cop out to blame the fans for their own booing.

The wise thing to do is examine the context of the booing. In many of the cases you described the frustration stemmed from a lack of information. Sometimes the fans couldn't see the bigger picture (Hayward) or perhaps they didn't have the full story (Deron). Maybe in Utah this frustration is amplified due to the opacity and secrecy of the organization, but it's not some problem due to the economy, the inversion, or religious influences particular to Utah.

Go read some Chicago Bulls forums about the uncertainty surrounding Rose's return from injury. This was their MVP, a total stud who suffered a catastrophic injury, and one year later they have fans questioning his heart and dissing his character.

But really, Greg Miller should move the team to some city full of polite people who also happen to be passionate sports fans.

 

[Ben10]

I didn't boo Deron, and I wouldn't have booed last night. I just don't think it's cool of Locke to lecture the fans. He even went so far as to suggest this fanbase isn't strong or mature enough for the organization to remain viable during a tanking season.

I don't believe any good can come from guilt tripping the fans. It's the same crap the Maloofs pulled on Kings fans. Basically said they needed to move the team because the fans had stopped showing up. These were the same fans that sold out Arco for years, and yet when the ownership goes broke and management systematically reduces the team to one that has no hope of competing in the future, somehow it's the fans' fault? Not only do they have to lose their team but they have to feel guilty about it?

It's true Utah fans have had it good for a while. We probably could stand to be more positive. I went to the Portland game, sat lower bowl for only $18, and even during that win there wasn't nearly the same excitement in the stands as I remember from years past. Locke attributes this downturn in our behavior to some mixture of the bad economy and our own spoiled natures, and maybe that's some of it, but I would appreciate it if instead of chastising the fans for booing that the Jazz would admit that it's on them to build team that inspires fans to cheer instead.

I want to add that it's not about the players at all. I don't blame Jefferson, Millsap, Foye, or Mo. I think they are playing hard and are victims in this situation as well. As a fan I just want a glimpse into the future of this team, and how can they, four expiring contracts, be expected to provide that?

Two things from this that I guess I just took differently then you did. First of all at no point in time when Locke was talking did I ever feel like he was Lecturing the fans. What I heard him say was that he didn't understand why they were booing when the team was getting beat by a far better team and he didn't understand why the fans boo people like Deron. I never took it as a lecture or even a guilt thing. I took it as he was really confused as to why.

I think that is the exact reason that he brought up that he would be concerned if he was the Jazz FO about going into a full tank mode. If the fans are booing a team that just won 5 games in a row and were playing hard but missing shots against a better team, how would the fans react to a team that was loosing all the time? (see your Golden state example above) How long would they give the team to rebuild. We as fans see bright hope in the future and with the new guys. I think the FO does to but they still feel they need to put a team that is playoff competitive on the floor or they might loose all there fans because we boo them in situations like this were they were playing pretty well and had been winning.

As for how players react to the Booing and how Locke went on about that, pretty valid point IMO. He even backed it up by asking former NBA player Brent Berry in his pod cast latter that day and getting pretty much the reaction he was talking about in his tip off. So he isn't off base there.

Everyone can take things like this how ever they feel is best. But to me most of what was said in the Pod cast, talking about Last night and the former player booing made sense to me and I agree with Locke on it.

 

[The Midnight]

Man... you guys sure like long posts.

 

[Ben10]

Man... you guys sure like long posts.

The sad thing is I start most of my posts thinking It's going to be a line or 2. But I guess I suck at getting all my thoughts out in that many lines

 

[Ben10]

Man... you guys sure like long posts.

Lets just say that Hack doesn't read may of my posts I guess LOL

 

[mct]

We cheered for Wesley Matthews, we cheered for Okur, yet for some reason we booed Deron. Who knows. Personally, I will always cheer for Deron and AK because they were my two favorite players and I think there's more to their stories than we understand.

Mavs fans hate Fisher now, so that vindicates us a little. And we'll never boo anyone with as much feeling as Cavs fans and LeBron James.

I wonder which of the current players we will boo in the future.

I gotta believe we'll always cheer for Millsap, unless he says something bad about us on his way out.

Jefferson, I really hope we're chill when he comes back. He just seems so nice.

The rest of the guys... I don't know if there's a strong enough connection there for us react one way or the other.

That's what's missing from this team: a player we love enough now to boo when they break our heart later.

 

[Ben10]

We cheered for Wesley Matthews, we cheered for Okur, yet for some reason we booed Deron. Who knows. Personally, I will always cheer for Deron and AK because they were my two favorite players and I think there's more to their stories than we understand.

Mavs fans hate Fisher now, so that vindicates us a little. And we'll never boo anyone with as much feeling as Cavs fans and LeBron James.

I wonder which of the current players we will boo in the future.

I gotta believe we'll always cheer for Millsap, unless he says something bad about us on his way out.

Jefferson, I really hope we're chill when he comes back. He just seems so nice.

The rest of the guys... I don't know if there's a strong enough connection there for us react one way or the other.

That's what's missing from this team: a player we love enough now to boo when they break our heart later.

Good post man. I completely agree with this. I well never understand the booing of a player that gave as much to the franchise as a Deron, or AK.

 

[akirac73]

If Greg Miller gave all fans free season tickets, then yes, you shouldn't boo, that would be rude. But if you're forking out your hard earned money for a poor product, you have every right to boo IMO.
On another more, I ate at a new restaurant the other day and the food and service was absolutely terrible. Am I a rude, immature, and mean person for for giving the establishment a bad review on Yelp?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[addictionary]

Booing in sports that shows off for the crowd from the regular folk is an old thing and it is mostly natural reaction to the dissatisfying show the players/fighters put up and cannot be able to fulfill their need for excitement.

Aside from them paying for the tickets and merchandise, the whole industry's existence currently stands on the excitement of the fans (the community). And this will be the only fact until some rich people gather to form an aristocratic league only for their pleasure. Not that they are not doing it right now but with the added fan-base income aside.

 

[Nate505]

What I see a lot of in this thread is trying to discredit what Locke is saying just because he works for the Jazz. You can disagree with him, but simply saying he's speaking on behalf of his employer is a rather big assumption.

The idea that FAs would shy away from Utah because the fans boo every now and then is so dumb it's hard to believe that a professional in the industry would make the claim.