End Compulsory Education?

[TheStormofWar]

Osmond's idea is dangerous.

1. Some parents will do anything their precious little snowflakes want to shut them up. If that means not going to school, so be it. Disengaged parents will remain disengaged all the more simply because their children have game consoles, tablets, high speed internet connections, and easier access to mind numbing things with which to nurture their numbed minds on. At least at school, there's a pretense they are doing something for the betterment of their minds. Not to mention societal skills and various other life lessons outside of "pwning n00bs" and learning how to use their browser's Private Mode to learn there are other definitions of "Money Shot" outside of Memo hitting a 3 pointer.

2. An uneducated child stands a greater chance to be a burden on the society they are part of. Such things lead to a greater chance of criminal behavior and an increased bleeding of tax dollars rather than contribution of the same. This has been proven time and again. To the detriment of all, an under educated society is one of the fastest ways to a welfare state.

3. An undereducated society cannot compete in the global market place due to a lack of skills that are needed to make the machine go. Simple as that.

 

[Gameface]

I'm still baffled by all of you who think the only thing keeping kids in school is the law making education compulsory.

What I hear are a lot of people who look at the things other parents allow their kids to do that they don't allow their kids to do and conclude those other parents don't care about their kids at all.

This myth of parents who don't care if their kids get educated is completely unfounded. Completely. Can you find a crack head here and there that besides neglecting themselves almos tot the point of death also neglect their kids? Yes. Is that anything besides an extreme minority situation that will not meaningfully change the rate of attendance? I don't think so.

LOL @ TheStormofWar's #1. This is what I'm talking about. You've seen parent spoil their kids in ways you never would and so in your mind they would give their "precious little snowflakes" whatever they want...including not going to school. All I can do is laugh.


I don't think removing compulsory education will accomplish what Aaron Osmond thinks it will, but I also don't think it will result in the horrors of mass exodus from our school system either.

The law requiring education is not the only thing holding our society together, I assure you. I bet school attendance at the middle school and elementary school level doesn't change more than 1%. In HS kids can already drop out at 16. Maybe there would be a jump in 15 year olds dropping out. Overall I just don't think compulsory education is doing what so many of you seem to think it's doing. Nor do I think your imagined consequences resulting from the ending of compulsory education is even remotely based on reality.

 

[Harambe]

Happens every school day at 3 PM.

Now imagine a world full of summers. The parents that genuinely don't care, or just don't have the money for an education for their kids still letting their kids roam around do nothing. The kids you normally don't have to worry about are all sent off to schools.

For the record, let me reiterate my stance.

The concepts of caring about their kids education, keeping them occupied with something to do(giving them a purpose), and being bound legally to send your kids to school are not mutually exclusive. I'm absolutely sure my parents wanted me to get an education. That doesn't mean that going to school wasn't a cheap(read; free) form of babysitting for 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, as well as a way to get someone else to do part of their job as parents for them.

The problem here is looking at schooling from the parents point of view. That's not what schooling is. It's supposed to be for the children's benefit first, and then societies benefit. At the very end of the list of who schooling is for, it should be a "bonus" or "crutch" for the parents to allow them to skirt some of the developmental responsibilities. This guy is simply putting the parents at the top.

And to a very large degree, the modern parent needs to be more involved with their child. I wish my parents were. Sure as hell woulda made my school experience a lot easier if they would have helped me with my homework.. enforced a way to study that worked for me. They didn't do any of that. They sent me to school and let me fend for myself.

 

[TheStormofWar]

This myth of parents who don't care if their kids get educated is completely unfounded.

Don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way, and it's not an attack on you. But no, it's not a myth. I deal with examples everyday. Let's just say in my day job, I see examples of the awful parental behavior. "My kids didn't do it." or "You information has to be wrong. My kid is a perfect angel." are very common things I've seen, still do, and will continue to hear. Though there are exceptions, parents will let their kids get away with anything to keep them happy.

I see it every time I go shopping and a receipt for a functioning uterus runs in front of my cart and nearly gets hit. Somehow, this is my fault when their kid ran loaded for bear in my direction (and I am observant) while mommy and daddy are leave their younger kid crying in the cart while they are blithely looking over the candy selection.

I have friends in education who return horror stories about parents who seem rather uninterested in what their kids are doing. They just want their little snowflakes to pass with no effort to appease some false sense of ego.

I read stories everyday where parents blast the educational system for some dumb reason or another, and argue that their kids "need to be exempt from this or the other" or "they just need to pass".

I've family who home school their kids because "they don't want their kids to deal with the horrors of the school system" while teaching them that Jesus rode a T-Rex. And somehow, this is better education?

A parent, a person, can be trusted to do the right thing and to give their kids a chance. People, however, are stupid animals. Parents will let their kids get away with anything in the name of shutting them up because "it's something they read in a news article". The above statement is just flat wrong, and nothing in my experience will change that. There are good examples, and I keep those in mind. Unfortunately, they are the minority.

To quote a line from a show, "Bad manners are the fault of the parent." It's very true and there is a reason for it.

 

[Stoked]

I see parents the simply do not care. Kids are dirty, uncombed hair, nasty teeth, rude, loud and out of control. There are also parents that think that being cool and their kids friend is parenting. So by allowing them an out there will be a rise in drop outs, to a point. That simply guarantees a larger poor class and will possibly lead to increased drug use, crime and unwed birthrate.

 

[Gameface]

Don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way, and it's not an attack on you. But no, it's not a myth. I deal with examples everyday. Let's just say in my day job, I see examples of the awful parental behavior. "My kids didn't do it." or "You information has to be wrong. My kid is a perfect angel." are very common things I've seen, still do, and will continue to hear. Though there are exceptions, parents will let their kids get away with anything to keep them happy.

I see it every time I go shopping and a receipt for a functioning uterus runs in front of my cart and nearly gets hit. Somehow, this is my fault when their kid ran loaded for bear in my direction (and I am observant) while mommy and daddy are leave their younger kid crying in the cart while they are blithely looking over the candy selection.

I have friends in education who return horror stories about parents who seem rather uninterested in what their kids are doing. They just want their little snowflakes to pass with no effort to appease some false sense of ego.

I read stories everyday where parents blast the educational system for some dumb reason or another, and argue that their kids "need to be exempt from this or the other" or "they just need to pass".

I've family who home school their kids because "they don't want their kids to deal with the horrors of the school system" while teaching them that Jesus rode a T-Rex. And somehow, this is better education?

A parent, a person, can be trusted to do the right thing and to give their kids a chance. People, however, are stupid animals. Parents will let their kids get away with anything in the name of shutting them up because "it's something they read in a news article". The above statement is just flat wrong, and nothing in my experience will change that. There are good examples, and I keep those in mind. Unfortunately, they are the minority.

To quote a line from a show, "Bad manners are the fault of the parent." It's very true and there is a reason for it.

nvm. post deleted

I don't know why I care to argue.

The only thing between mass ignorance and enlightenment is compulsory education. You've convinced me.

 

[CONAN]

Don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way, and it's not an attack on you. But no, it's not a myth. I deal with examples everyday.

Ya, I don't get this whole there are no bad parents out there mantra. There are plenty. Guys want to bring up the odd crack whore and say it's only every now and then. That's just not true. I would say almost every parent out there cares to some degree, even the crack whores. If you ask them and they look in their hearts they all have feelings of doing right by their kids. The prob is a lot just aren't that committed to it.

 

[Gameface]

Ya, I don't get this whole there are no bad parents out there mantra. There are plenty. Guys want to bring up the odd crack whore and say it's only every now and then. That's just not true. I would say almost every parent out there cares to some degree, even the crack whores. If you ask them and they look in their hearts they all have feelings of doing right by their kids. The prob is a lot just aren't that committed to it.

Holy crap. We're all bad parents, at least sometimes. even you CONAN.

You guys are trying to make the leap that compulsory education is necessary BECAUSE parents are so bad that if not legally required they wouldn't even make their kids go to school if they didn't want to.

Pretty big leap, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Stoked]

Holy crap. We're all bad parents, at least sometimes. even you CONAN.

You guys are trying to make the leap that compulsory education is necessary BECAUSE parents are so bad that if not legally required they wouldn't even make their kids go to school if they didn't want to.

Pretty big leap, that's all I'm saying.

I dont think that is the only reason In fact it's a minor one. I also have a broad definition of "compulsory education" it doesn't matter matter who provides it.

I do think major revisions are needed on how and what is provided. Major revisions.

 

[CONAN]

You guys are trying to make the leap that compulsory education is necessary BECAUSE parents are so bad that if not legally required they wouldn't even make their kids go to school if they didn't want to.

Pretty big leap, that's all I'm saying.

Could you show me where I said that? Talk about a pretty big leap.

 

[CONAN]

I dont think that is the only reason In fact it's a minor one.

Agreed. I have barely even addressed compulsory education because it's a joke (the idea of doing away with it).

 

[LogGrad98]

If the education they were being compelled into was even on par with standard education in other developed countries then there would be a point in this discussion, but when we are talking about being compelled to get a 3rd rate education (at best) then there really is no point in the discussion or the law at all. Parents are largely to blame in general. Whether the kids are compelled into school or not, parental involvement still plays a huge role in a child's success or failure.

Interesting read.

https://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-19/the-real-reason-americas-schools-stink

Around the world, the catch-all measure used to proxy for parental commitment to education is the number of books in a child‘s household. This measure predicts student educational outcomes better than class sizes, or expenditures per student, the length of the school day or better class monitoring. Hanushek and Woessman have found that among 27 rich countries, the United States sees one of the strongest relationships between parental book ownership and child learning outcomes. In the U.S., kids from homes where there are more than two full bookcases score two and a half grade levels higher than kids from homes with very few books.

 

[Stoked]

If the education they were being compelled into was even on par with standard education in other developed countries then there would be a point in this discussion, but when we are talking about being compelled to get a 3rd rate education (at best) then there really is no point in the discussion or the law at all. Parents are largely to blame in general. Whether the kids are compelled into school or not, parental involvement still plays a huge role in a child's success or failure.

Interesting read.

https://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-19/the-real-reason-americas-schools-stink

One should not ignore a problem because there are others. I agree that fundamental changes are needs in education. However that is no reason to go and make another mistake.

 

[babe]

If the education they were being compelled into was even on par with standard education in other developed countries then there would be a point in this discussion, but when we are talking about being compelled to get a 3rd rate education (at best) then there really is no point in the discussion or the law at all. Parents are largely to blame in general. Whether the kids are compelled into school or not, parental involvement still plays a huge role in a child's success or failure.

Interesting read.

https://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-19/the-real-reason-americas-schools-stink

fun article. It's not parents howling after their kids to do their homework that makes them good students. It's having books in the house. . . . .

sneaky kids will get into everything, won't they????

 

[LogGrad98]

fun article. It's not parents howling after their kids to do their homework that makes them good students. It's having books in the house. . . . .

sneaky kids will get into everything, won't they????

Yes they will.

As for homework, in fact there are other studies that show school performance and aptitude as the inverse of the amount of homework assigned. More homework, lower performance. Homework is generally the catchall for lousy teachers. I couldn't figure out how to teach you in 8 hours in school, so go home and learn on your own for 3 more hours.

 

[CONAN]

One should not ignore a problem because there are others. I agree that fundamental changes are needs in education. However that is no reason to go and make another mistake.

Agreed. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils.