Boozer who?

[JAZZFAN_2814]

Boozer's never done this either.

2007.

There's little doubt as to how important Boozer was in that context.

And how unimportant Kirilenko was.

It's not 1996 anymore.

Be sure to explain the difference in Utah's post schemes, centralized on a power forward, that Sloan has radically implemented.

Or just shut up.

Your choice.

 

[NAOS]

2007

astonishingly convincing

 

[sportsnut1232]

Dennis Rodman was a better man-defender than Shaq.

What that has to do with Rodman as a marquee player, with a championshipl-level offense designed around him, I fail to understand in any type of long or short form analysis.



Is Millsap now Bill Russell? Because the idea that he's a defensive anchor, on par with Boozer's offensive role, is one of the more nonsensical asseverations -- at the least, implications -- I've seen on here.

If that isn't the point, then I fail to see what your point is. That a sturdy, respectable defender is better than a mediocre to poor defender?

And...what? Millsap's overall game is not elevated to Boozer's level because he plays decent defense in a man to man and occasional help context.

It's rather like pointing out that a compact car gets better mileage than a Hummer.



That's a pretty poor example of self-shot creation. 15-17 foot jumpers from bigs tend to be created off spacing and guard initiation; Millsap is no different.

He is decent at driving the lane, a faceup context, but his back to the basket game is rudimentary, with little more than a decent jumper to work with in low-post situations.

He can drive, yes. But that doesn't mean you can set him up on the block, let him go to work either man to man or with a crowd, and expect an optimal shot for him or a teammate.

That's shot creation. That's facilitation.

Boozer had that -- amazing footwork -- and so does Jefferson. Guys you can design an offense around, in other words.

Millsap is -- though I'm not making a one to one talent comparison with anyone here -- more like Thurl Bailey to Karl Malone. The latter was setting up the offense, and someone like Bailey as a second or third option, just by being on the floor. The ability to dump the ball in, either in isolation or motion contexts, inherent to the star's skillsets creating not only for himself but for teammates.

I agree that Millsap is not a first option on a team or player you can run your offense through. But are you saying you would rather have Boozer than Millsap? That's what it sounds like to me. Millsap brings toughness, defense, heart. Those are things you can't teach and Boozer will never develop these intangibles.

Millsap is the type of player a championship team has to have. The things he brings to the table are rare. You can find plenty of players like Boozer- Good offensive game, not enough toughness or heart to commit himself on the defensive end, etc. We were NEVER going to win a title running our offense through Boozer.

When people look at Boozer, all they look at is the box score, not the chemistry issues he brings by not giving full effort on both ends. Our offense will score regardless if we have Boozer to run the offense through. Give me Millsap over Boozer anyday.

 

[cjs55]

I realize that you're a basketball illiterate, with statements like the above.

No understanding of offensive schemes, basic plays, or playbooks. Floor spacing or philosophy.

And how a 5x5 not only refers to Kirilenko's old statlines, but likely your IQ as well.

If you think the Jazz ran the same offense through Boozer that they did through Malone, you clearly are delusional. The post-up is the 3rd or 4th option in today's Jazz offense. This is because none of the Jazz big men are facilitators. They can score, but asking on them to be anything like Malone is crazy.

In the 90's, the Jazz would run an offense focused around the high post. Malone would get the ball almost every posession with time left on the shot clock to hit cutters and make plays.

Today the Jazz run a flex offense which has many options before the post up. The post up is usually the 3rd or 4th option after a variety of curls off screens, and is often the last option in the offense. The offense does a good job of spacing the floor for these post-ups, but they are by no means the primary focus of the offense, but rather just a facet of it. If the offense breaks down, the post-up becomes more important, which is why we see it more in the playoffs. The current offense is more balanced, and the 1 and the 3 are the primary playmakers. This is because none of the Jazz big men are great passers...their job is to score when they get the ball, which is why they get the ball less often and later in the shot clock.

If you want proof, simply take a look at the usage rates of recent teams versus the Malone teams. The recent teams are far more balanced.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2010.html vs https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1997.html

 

[IndianForeigner]

The loss of Boozer is an addition by subtraction, especially on the defense end. Someone mentioned how Jefferson had more blocks in one game than Boozer did in a whole month. Plus, we are much tougher. Instead of comparing Jefferson to Boozer, Boozer's replacement is actually Millsap. We thought that we would drop off a bit offensively at that position, but Millsap is putting up the points, rebounds, and many more intangibles than Boozer. I like this team. There are a lot of new parts so it may take awhile to gel, though.

 

[JAZZFAN_2814]

If you think the Jazz ran the same offense through Boozer that they did through Malone, you clearly are delusional.

And you're either prevaricating or are borderline ADD, as I never said that.

In the 90's, the Jazz would run an offense focused around the high post. Malone would get the ball almost every posession with time left on the shot clock to hit cutters and make plays.

Even the above outline is lacking, as the Jazz, depending on year, ran a huge amount through Malone low as well.

Today the Jazz run a flex offense which has many options before the post up. The post up is usually the 3rd or 4th option after a variety of curls off screens, and is often the last option in the offense. The offense does a good job of spacing the floor for these post-ups, but they are by no means the primary focus of the offense, but rather just a facet of it.

I think you're confused, either as far as chronological and empirical flow, or in the idea that flex supersedes post play rather than working with it in and as Sloan's system.

Constantly relating this to Malone -- a transcendent post player, who(m) I only expressed as ideal rather than parallel to the pieces of today -- is a waste of time, that has little to nothing to do with whether a post presence is needed for this franchise, and whether Boozer is built for that. Or whether Jefferson is.

They both are.

Millsap is not.

If the offense breaks down, the post-up becomes more important, which is why we see it more in the playoffs.

You've just added to my thematic structure: contention, defined by playoff basketball, requires a post-centric offense.

Saying that Utah resorts to the post when high-pressure defense comes, is a bit like saying Stockton and Malone (no, this is not a namedrop that is meant as a direct skillset comparison, and thus sideshow reply from you) ran the pick and roll under pressure, therein making it a less important option.

Its importance is magnified by playoff basketball. It's directly related to contention, or the attempt at such a strata, and under higher pressure and need, you go to your greatest strengths.

Utah used the post to abuse a number of opponents, high, low, mid-post in the postseason with Boozer. When they have been abused, it's because they couldn't effectively use the post against the competition -- see Lakers or Spurs.

Millsap cannot be the focus of a(n effective) post offense. Boozer and Jefferson can.

That doesn't make any of them close to Karl Malone.

 

[write4u]

One Brow, I really do think you have multiple personalities. As One Brow, you say a healthy AK is the 2nd best player on the team; as JF 2814, you makes slurs and hateful comments about him.

 

[chawx]

*Include everything typed in this thread*

 

[cjs55]

The reason I bring up Malone is not simply because you did. It's because I consider that offense to actually be a post-centric offense. I agree that the current Jazz offense certainly can use post production. But that doesn't make it post-centric. The post option is just one option, of many balanced options. Is Millsap really totally incapable of providing this option? I don't think so, although he's certainly not as good as Boozer in pure post moves/ability. However, he had better offensive production than Boozer did in the playoffs last year. Boozer shoots tons of fadeaway jumpers as well, especially against the big frontline of the Lakers, and Millsap can do this just as well with his improved jumpshot. Then when you consider that many of Boozer's points came from mid range jumpers that are catch-and-shoot and come from simply running the Jazz sets, which you can see Millsap easily replicating last night. Finally, in the playoffs, the Jazz offense is Deron Williams-centric more than anything else, and for good reason.

I think some of this argument is semantic. What you are calling post-centric, I wouldn't consider post-centric. If the post is an important part of the offense, but not the main focus, it's not a post-centric offense.

 

[Archie Moses]

One Brow, I really do think you have multiple personalities. As One Brow, you say a healthy AK is the 2nd best player on the team; as JF 2814, you makes slurs and hateful comments about him.

Give it up already, finger pointer.

 

[GVC]

I don't claim to be a genius (or at all intelligent, really), but I feel like I've figured 2814 out. I no longer need to read his posts. They all follow a pattern:

1. The Jazz need a PF who is elite in the high or low post (drawing attention, hitting J's or playing with back to basket, making good reads and passes, etc.) to have any hope.
2. Defense (and everything else not directly related to point 1 above) doesn't matter.
3. AK sucks.
4. Everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot, and I will misrepresent/dismiss their arguments and insult them until they give up/concede.

 

[Bodhi]

Extremes as base example of philosophy, not a literal basis.

Don't get confused. And don't attempt such transparent sophistry.



Then what was your point, considering you directly implied that his defensive ability made the choice "arbitrary" between the two?

If you don't like my reply, you should first like at your own ridiculous assertion. You know think in-tandem with what you type out.

Just a thought.



Sorry, I felt the need to take Occam's razor to your rambling emotionalism.

In other words, you have no logical argument for Millsap in this context. What you have is hatred for Boozer.



Did you have to open a book? I'm so sorry, I hope it wasn't as physically painful for you as, I'm certain, it was mentally.

Just as a sendoff, it's clear that you're a vituperative halfwit, unable to defend the lacking and moronic assertions that you throw up like a dog choking on a bone.

Welp, that about does it. This is, without a doubt, THEE most tired schtick on this board.......36 posts in. It's so painfully obvious you practice this in the mirror.