Boozer who?

[IndianForeigner]

The loss of Boozer is an addition by subtraction, especially on the defense end. Someone mentioned how Jefferson had more blocks in one game than Boozer did in a whole month. Plus, we are much tougher. Instead of comparing Jefferson to Boozer, Boozer's replacement is actually Millsap. We thought that we would drop off a bit offensively at that position, but Millsap is putting up the points, rebounds, and many more intangibles than Boozer. I like this team. There are a lot of new parts so it may take awhile to gel, though.

 

[JAZZFAN_2814]

If you think the Jazz ran the same offense through Boozer that they did through Malone, you clearly are delusional.

And you're either prevaricating or are borderline ADD, as I never said that.

In the 90's, the Jazz would run an offense focused around the high post. Malone would get the ball almost every posession with time left on the shot clock to hit cutters and make plays.

Even the above outline is lacking, as the Jazz, depending on year, ran a huge amount through Malone low as well.

Today the Jazz run a flex offense which has many options before the post up. The post up is usually the 3rd or 4th option after a variety of curls off screens, and is often the last option in the offense. The offense does a good job of spacing the floor for these post-ups, but they are by no means the primary focus of the offense, but rather just a facet of it.

I think you're confused, either as far as chronological and empirical flow, or in the idea that flex supersedes post play rather than working with it in and as Sloan's system.

Constantly relating this to Malone -- a transcendent post player, who(m) I only expressed as ideal rather than parallel to the pieces of today -- is a waste of time, that has little to nothing to do with whether a post presence is needed for this franchise, and whether Boozer is built for that. Or whether Jefferson is.

They both are.

Millsap is not.

If the offense breaks down, the post-up becomes more important, which is why we see it more in the playoffs.

You've just added to my thematic structure: contention, defined by playoff basketball, requires a post-centric offense.

Saying that Utah resorts to the post when high-pressure defense comes, is a bit like saying Stockton and Malone (no, this is not a namedrop that is meant as a direct skillset comparison, and thus sideshow reply from you) ran the pick and roll under pressure, therein making it a less important option.

Its importance is magnified by playoff basketball. It's directly related to contention, or the attempt at such a strata, and under higher pressure and need, you go to your greatest strengths.

Utah used the post to abuse a number of opponents, high, low, mid-post in the postseason with Boozer. When they have been abused, it's because they couldn't effectively use the post against the competition -- see Lakers or Spurs.

Millsap cannot be the focus of a(n effective) post offense. Boozer and Jefferson can.

That doesn't make any of them close to Karl Malone.

 

[write4u]

One Brow, I really do think you have multiple personalities. As One Brow, you say a healthy AK is the 2nd best player on the team; as JF 2814, you makes slurs and hateful comments about him.

 

[chawx]

*Include everything typed in this thread*

 

[cjs55]

The reason I bring up Malone is not simply because you did. It's because I consider that offense to actually be a post-centric offense. I agree that the current Jazz offense certainly can use post production. But that doesn't make it post-centric. The post option is just one option, of many balanced options. Is Millsap really totally incapable of providing this option? I don't think so, although he's certainly not as good as Boozer in pure post moves/ability. However, he had better offensive production than Boozer did in the playoffs last year. Boozer shoots tons of fadeaway jumpers as well, especially against the big frontline of the Lakers, and Millsap can do this just as well with his improved jumpshot. Then when you consider that many of Boozer's points came from mid range jumpers that are catch-and-shoot and come from simply running the Jazz sets, which you can see Millsap easily replicating last night. Finally, in the playoffs, the Jazz offense is Deron Williams-centric more than anything else, and for good reason.

I think some of this argument is semantic. What you are calling post-centric, I wouldn't consider post-centric. If the post is an important part of the offense, but not the main focus, it's not a post-centric offense.

 

[Archie Moses]

One Brow, I really do think you have multiple personalities. As One Brow, you say a healthy AK is the 2nd best player on the team; as JF 2814, you makes slurs and hateful comments about him.

Give it up already, finger pointer.

 

[GVC]

I don't claim to be a genius (or at all intelligent, really), but I feel like I've figured 2814 out. I no longer need to read his posts. They all follow a pattern:

1. The Jazz need a PF who is elite in the high or low post (drawing attention, hitting J's or playing with back to basket, making good reads and passes, etc.) to have any hope.
2. Defense (and everything else not directly related to point 1 above) doesn't matter.
3. AK sucks.
4. Everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot, and I will misrepresent/dismiss their arguments and insult them until they give up/concede.

 

[Bodhi]

Extremes as base example of philosophy, not a literal basis.

Don't get confused. And don't attempt such transparent sophistry.



Then what was your point, considering you directly implied that his defensive ability made the choice "arbitrary" between the two?

If you don't like my reply, you should first like at your own ridiculous assertion. You know think in-tandem with what you type out.

Just a thought.



Sorry, I felt the need to take Occam's razor to your rambling emotionalism.

In other words, you have no logical argument for Millsap in this context. What you have is hatred for Boozer.



Did you have to open a book? I'm so sorry, I hope it wasn't as physically painful for you as, I'm certain, it was mentally.

Just as a sendoff, it's clear that you're a vituperative halfwit, unable to defend the lacking and moronic assertions that you throw up like a dog choking on a bone.

Welp, that about does it. This is, without a doubt, THEE most tired schtick on this board.......36 posts in. It's so painfully obvious you practice this in the mirror.

 

[NAOS]

Welp, that about does it. This is, without a doubt, THEE most tired schtick on this board.......36 posts in. It's so painfully obvious you practice this in the mirror.

But his ideas are so sexy to himself.

 

[JAZZFAN_2814]

Welp, that about does it. This is, without a doubt, THEE most tired schtick on this board.......36 posts in. It's so painfully obvious you practice this in the mirror.

Well, looking at your name, quote and avatar, I feel quite safe in assuming that you don't practice your online schtick in the mirror: I give odds that Don Swayze is a bridge too far for you.

 

[JAZZFAN_2814]

I don't claim to be a genius (or at all intelligent, really),

Well, the preface works at least.

1. The Jazz need a PF who is elite in the high or low post (drawing attention, hitting J's or playing with back to basket, making good reads and passes, etc.) to have any hope.

The funny thing is, this is the standard for a Jerry Sloan team.

At least a decently competitive one (playoff-bound).

If you can't read that in the offense then, yes, you're an idiot.

2. Defense (and everything else not directly related to point 1 above) doesn't matter.

Oh, because an occasional block from Kirilenko doesn't convince me that he's worth 17 million?

3. AK sucks.

AKA reality. Especially at...17 million.

4. Everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot, and I will misrepresent/dismiss their arguments and insult them until they give up/concede.

The charming thing is how easily inverted all this is. Don't think too hard about it, just take it the same way as you provided it.

Yet, please, elucidate once again as to how Kirilenko was more important than Boozer many seasons. I'm sure he was last year as well, including or especially in the playoffs.

 

[GVC]

Yet, please, elucidate once again as to how Kirilenko was more important than Boozer many seasons. I'm sure he was last year as well, including or especially in the playoffs.

Points 3 and 4 at work.

 

[ncoloradojazz]

This is the Paul Millsap appreciation thread. Through the first 3 games his stats are 21-12-3.


He never whines, never brags, never dresses downs rookies on the court. What he does is that he always comes to play and gives 100% on the court, even when no one else does.


I am so glad that we have him on the team and that a certain other player has taken his talents to Chicago.

so take a shot at dwill cuz dwill yells at da rookie. That rookie sucks and dwill knows it. Kid blew wide open layup last night off a nice dwill dish but ya millsap a b east so why does this surprise anyone that he would put up these type of numbers

 

[One Brow]

2007.

How singularly unimpressive a choice. Boozer appeared in all of 4 more games that year than Kirilenko. You will be hard-pressed to make a good case for Boozer being one of the leaders of the team over Kirilenko, despite the difficulties in communication.

However, to answer your question, in 2007-2008 (just one year later) Kirilenko was our second-best player, and reliably healthy both physically and mentally.

 

[Hopper]

Millsap is the type of player a championship team has to have. The things he brings to the table are rare. You can find plenty of players like Boozer- Good offensive game, not enough toughness or heart to commit himself on the defensive end, etc. We were NEVER going to win a title running our offense through Boozer.

Astute post, Nut. Neither Boozer nor Millsap looked like world-beaters against the Lakers. Still one very noticable difference. One quit, one didn't. One looked like a scared little schoolgirl, and one looked like a full-growwed man.

 

[LunaticWolf]

It is a shame that 2814 feels the elitist need to put so many personal insults in his posts, as he has some really good points.

 

[Bodhi]

, as he has some really good points.

Oh, I agree with the vast majority of what he says. How he says it? Well, he's just daddies special widdle guy is what he is!! Playin' dress up.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Millsap doesn't need to be the "anchor" in this offense to make him successful. Having the low post presence of Big Al is a dynamic at the PF/C positions that I don't think Utah has ever had. In that way, it's a little bit of uncharted territory, so any Jazz fan saying Sap can or can't do this or that really doesn't know. If last night was any indication, this combo down low could be downright devestating.

I for one, am not going to underestimate Sap. All the guy has done is produce when given the chance and it seems like he's still trending upwards. Every time we think we know Millsap's ceiling, he seems to smash right through it.

And for those comparing him to Boozer? Once is currently playing and producing for his team, and the other is in street clothes (yet again). Hard to be a factor when you miss over 30% of your games.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Can anyone here name 10 PF or C who have low-post game? Can anyone name 5 PF or C who have dominant low-post games? I doubt yall can. It just the facts that no one plays in the low post anymore. We are lucky to have one of them in Al Jefferson, and we are lucky to have a good face-up 4 in Millsap.

 

[franklin]

Can anyone here name 10 PF or C who have...

Could be said about any position.

low-post game? Can anyone name 5 PF or C who have dominant low-post games? I doubt yall can. It just the facts that no one plays in the low post anymore. We are lucky to have one of them in Al Jefferson, and we are lucky to have a good face-up 4 in Millsap.

The NBA moved away from the low-post game years ago. Fast is the preference these days. Also, zone was brought back. To give you an example, Amare isn't used as he would have been in the 1980's or 1990's.

In no order:
Dwight
Amare
Boozer
AJ
Duncan
Gasol
Bynum
Bosh
Ming

Scola could be really good. Mark Gasol, Oden, Griffin? Bogut--honorable mention.

Most of the really dominant low post players are over the hill right now (Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Ming, even Brad Miller and Jermain O'Neal).