Obama Government Shutdown?

[green]

For the government shut down absolutely one party is to blame.

Which party is that?

The party that passed spending programs that we don't have money for?

There is blame on both sides. I want to help those out who are down on their luck and need some help to get back on their feet. When I see people driving nice cars and buying candy bars and pop and beef jerky at the gas station with food stamps...that's not what I had in mind.

BOTH parties are to blame. Anyone who can't see that is part of the problem.

 

[colton]

Part of the problem is you cant vote in primaries for both parties can you? You can't go vote on the Republican side as they whittle down the field, and vote on the Democrat side as they do the same? Am I missing something? If you like one person from the Dems for one spot and one Repub for something else you can't vote for both unless they both happen to make it to the final vote between repubs and dems... this sound right?

Depend on the state. I'm pretty sure that in Maryland people can vote in both primaries.

 

[green]

Right?

This is law. Not proposed law, actual law. They refused to find a way to fund it because they don't agree with it even though it's been through 40+ votes to repeal, and a judgement from the Judicial branch.

How is this not the GOP's fault?

Aren't we running at huge deficits? How are you supposed to fund something you don't have money for?

Come on now. Your post is EXACTLY what is wrong with this country.

Here are some facts:

We have more social/defense programs than we can afford.

Raising taxes is a STUPID argument, because if you taxed the rich at 100%, we would still be running deficits.

Until both sides realize that we are in over our heads AND ONLY THROUGH CUTS can we get back on stable ground, then politics is pointless because no one wants to fix the problem. They just want theirs.

The only other option is to pull out of the "world", tax all imports through the butt, and force manufacturers to bring jobs back to the US.

 

[green]

Why have elections then? I guess you forgot how after winning back the House in 2010 the Republicans used this victory to continue their nonsense of saying NO to everything that the president wants to do. They actually said it was the people who were voicing their dissatisfaction with "failed" Obama policies.

If I recall correctly, the Democrats were the first party to filibuster laws/supreme court appointees, etc.

Again, BOTH SIDES are at fault. BOTH SIDES ARE DOING THE SAME THING.

 

[sirkickyass]

You're seeing a party in crisis at the moment. You've got about 40 members of the GOP (this number is from Peter King R-NY) who are wagging the dog. Boehner isn't really in charge and can't bring them in line without losing his job as speaker in the process. Cruz seems bound and determined to make a name for himself as being the guy who defunded Obamacare. After years and years and years of negotiating against himself, Obama has finally decided that he's not going to respond to hostage taking anymore. To the extent Obama is to blame, it's because he's given in to these tactics previously and encouraged the GOP to do it again and again.


Stoked, you keep repeating that the people elected this house to do what it's doing now. That's only kind of true. Gerrymandering played a huge role in the party make-up of the house. Even though the House GOP outnumbers the Dems by 32 seats, the reality is that Democrats won an aggregated popular vote in house races by more than a million votes. In fact the discrepancy between popular vote and seat representation is the largest it's been in more than 60 years.

https://election.princeton.edu/2012/11/09/the-new-house-with-less-democracy/

 

[LogGrad98]

There you going again, Obama won both elections and the debate about Obamacare so says the final decision-maker in the land: The Supreme Court (Conservative one).

Do you understand what the Supreme Court said about it exactly? They didn't make a sweeping statement that Obamacare is the final law of the land. You seem confused.

Their ruling was simply that it was legal for congress to pass Obamacare because it qualified as a tax and congress has constitutional authority to levy taxes. That's it. No more, no less. All it means is that Obamacare is not against the constitution, not that the Supreme Court has declared it the final end-all be-all law as you seem to think. It proves nothing other than it is legal. It doesn't mean it is right, or good, or even publicly supported, or what the majority wants, rather just that it is legal, from a constitutional standpoint. Their ruling has no weight other than legality.

You also seem to miss another point. Electing Obama does not equal voting in favor of Obamacare. Nowhere on the ballet I filled out was there any proviso that I accepted or rejected Obamacare based on how I voted in the election. Making that connection is a false dichotomy. That is, in fact, why I used the examples I did earlier of rhetoric that sways voters. Obama ran as much on an anti-Romney campaign as he did on any other platform. In fact Obamacare, or "The Affordable Care Act" didn't even exist in it's legislated form during the election. The part of Obama's platform that addressed this was that he was committed to reforming healthcare, presumably so everyone had access to insurance. The details were not hammered out until well after the presidential election, and the vote in the senate happened on December 24, 2009. To state unequivocally that a vote for Obama is exactly equivalent to a vote for Obamacare is just absurd and is proof of brainlessly following party rhetoric.

Also, do you know why the Republicans are against Obamacare, and what the main difference is from Ronmeycare that has them up in arms? Do you know the turning point from what started as a fairly decent bi-partisan exercise and turned into the mess it is now? It is actually pretty interesting if you take the time to understand what both sides are saying and their traditional stands on such issues.

But to do that you would have to acknowledge that both sides might have a point, and actually be willing to accept that one side isn't perfect. I don't expect that from you given your assumptions and rhetoric, but I encourage you to try anyway.

 

[green]

Obamacare isn't perfect but a least it isn't ignoring the problem. What most republicans don't get is that Obamacare is the compromise. Democrats wanted a one payor system and that is why no healthcare passed during the Clinton years. ACA is similar to what the GOP brought to the table. So they were ok with Romneycare but once it became a democratic/Obama idea then it became a socialists program.

This is a lie. We don't know what Obamacare is yet. More rhetoric. Again, as long as rhetoric is more important than reality and compromise, then we are screwed.

 

[green]

Are you actually comparing Iraq to Obamacare? The point of candrew's post is that the president won the election and debate over this issue so he shouldn't have to compromise. Yes it is true that Bush invading Iraq was a bad thing but he still got to do what he wanted to even though he didn't have the majority wanting him elected. The way the system works is the winners get to have more of their stuff passed because they won. You don't have to like or agree with it but that has pretty much worked that way until recently when the GOP/TP think they can ignore the will of the people regardless of the election results. Do you actually think the republicans would compromise if they were in charge? They didn't on Iraq!!!

Ahem, democrat filibusters, ahem.

Sorry, both sides are doing the same thing.

 

[LogGrad98]

Bipartisanship

and unicorns and eskimos, all imaginary creatures.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

and unicorns and eskimos, all imaginary creatures.

Hey, Eskimos are real and I'm going to live with them. We will ride our water dragons and hunt sharks and leviathan for food.

 

[LogGrad98]

Hey, Eskimos are real and I'm going to live with them. We will ride our water dragons and hunt sharks and leviathan for food.

This is your man then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqMvJI73UCY

 

[green]

You're seeing a party in crisis at the moment. You've got about 40 members of the GOP (this number is from Peter King R-NY) who are wagging the dog. Boehner isn't really in charge and can't bring them in line without losing his job as speaker in the process. Cruz seems bound and determined to make a name for himself as being the guy who defunded Obamacare. After years and years and years of negotiating against himself, Obama has finally decided that he's not going to respond to hostage taking anymore. To the extent Obama is to blame, it's because he's given in to these tactics previously and encouraged the GOP to do it again and again.


Stoked, you keep repeating that the people elected this house to do what it's doing now. That's only kind of true. Gerrymandering played a huge role in the party make-up of the house. Even though the House GOP outnumbers the Dems by 32 seats, the reality is that Democrats won an aggregated popular vote in house races by more than a million votes. In fact the discrepancy between popular vote and seat representation is the largest it's been in more than 60 years.

https://election.princeton.edu/2012/11/09/the-new-house-with-less-democracy/

This is the most true statement out there. There Repubs don't know who/what they are. One republican wrote his own healthcare bill. Another hates it. One passed a flat tax, but is for gay marriage, so he isn't a "true" republican. One thinks that if you are raped, you won't get pregnant.

The leadership and organization of the Repub party is gone. It doesn't exist. Look at this country. It is in shambles. You can easily toss all the blame on the left, as they had full control for two years, the white house for the last 6 and the Senate for the last 8? 10?

Yet, no one does. The left is so organized, so in sync with each other, so united, they continue to win even though reality says that the right should be winning. Obama ran on lowering taxes the first time around. McCain ran on nothing.

Until the right actually figures out what they stand for, get united, all say the same message, that party is screwed and won't accomplish anything, because they don't know what they are trying to accomplish.

For example, here in Utah, Hatch's opponent in the primaries ran on this:

"Orrin Hatch has been in Washington too long."

He didn't say what Hatch was doing wrong, what was wrong in Washington, or what he would do if he were elected. All he said was "I should be elected because Hatch is too old". The republican party is pathetic right now.