What's new

Why can't people who leave the LDS church move on?

Just like everything else in this world, there are tradeoffs. Having a highly structuralized, centralized central church that permeates much of a communities life keeps their beliefs fairly omnipresent, and encourages followers to obey them-- even to the extent where people behave they way they do 'because they're supposed to', without much after-thought.

The problem with every highly-structuralized community, is that the more something permeates your life, the harder it is to not have it at the forefront of your thoughts, and actions on a daily basis. What i mean by this, is if you're a mormon living in Utah County, the church becomes something that isn't left to the confines of your home. It becomes a culture. Families are placed in hierarchies, based on how "pure" they are. People who leave the church, or refuse to follow it, are generally looked upon negatively.


Personally, I think this is mostly a Utah thing (in terms of mormonism). It's very easy to get sucked into a culture when most of your town, city, or state is mormon. One of the most beautiful things about multiculturalism (or destructive-- depending on which way you approach it) is the trend of just having people from all sorts of faiths, cultures, ethnicities being hurled together into one spot. It fosters mutual appreciation, and manages to take a chunk out of the holier-than-thou attitudes to some extent. Of course, from a church-perspective, leaving a community where the majority is mormon could mean that their followers might 'deviate' from their perceived path to a higher degree.

/soapbox

I have seen this just as strong outside of Utah, as the mormon communities outside of Utah tend to be much more tight-knit as they truly feel it is them against the world. In Utah it is just assumed that everyone else you meet is mormon, and so this attitude is not quite as strong, although it is more pervasive.
 
I have seen this just as strong outside of Utah, as the mormon communities outside of Utah tend to be much more tight-knit as they truly feel it is them against the world. In Utah it is just assumed that everyone else you meet is mormon, and so this attitude is not quite as strong, although it is more pervasive.

I would agree actually, but only to a point. The province I'm in has some of the largest mormon communities in Canada (particularly close to the borders of Montana and Idaho).

Definitely a decent-sized community here in Edmonton. But the thing about it-- is that they can often leave their faith within the confines of their home, when they go to school, or to work, or wherever. I would expect this to be more difficult for your typical mormon of Utah. The hierarchical structure of the respective churches is (likely) still there, and lots of them are still just as dedicated as their Utahn counterparts, but I think the lack of pervasiveness in all aspects of their life allows for things like leaving the church much less difficult.

Either way, I've never been to Utah, so I can only postulate so much on the subject.
 
This is a tough thing, as deeply ingrained as the mormon religion is into our families. We are dealing with a similar situation right now, but in reverse, I guess you might say.

My oldest son is 20. After hemming and hawing about it for a year and a half he didn't go on a mission. He stopped going to church once he got out on his own, and has recently moved in with his girlfriend, who has separated from her husband but whose divorce is not yet finalized. Now she is pregnant. He pays lip service to the church, and claims he goes now and then, but it is all a smoke screen so we don't come down on him, which we haven't done.

And so we (my wife more than me) struggle with the idea that somehow we failed him. He didn't get something he needed or in some other way we screwed up. But I think that is a cultural thing, and partially based in the dogma of the religion, that we fail our children and in our personal development if our kids don't make the "right" choices, so it cuts close to home in more ways than one, and that attitude is one reason I have distanced myself somewhat from the religion over the years.

When people hear we have a 20-y.o. son, they ask when he gets home from his mission. When we tell them he isn't on a mission we get the whole "oh, well. that's um...well you know everyone has...ok...um <awkward laughter and throat clearing> hey look, someone brought jello!" No one knows what to saw and the sideways glances are inevitable. It bothers my wife a lot. I let it mostly roll off, but largely because I already know the LDS church is one of the most judgemental groups (culturally) I have ever been associated with, so I expect it and just roll with it. But she feels like she failed as a parent, and the reactions she gets from church members reinforces those feelings of failure.

Our daughter who just turned 18 and graduated from High School this year was far more active than our son and has been talking about a mission for the past 2-3 years, ever since she went to EFY. That is, until her boyfriend of 2 years, who is going to BYU Idaho, decided he wasn't going on a mission because he doesn't know if he even believes in God and started pressuring her to come to BYU Idaho with him. She now wants to transfer there instead of go on her mission.

This has my wife in tears almost nightly. She feels like she is losing all of her kids. Granted, we have been far from perfect mormon parents, but we have always encouraged our kids to find out the truth for themselves. They have all read the BoM, most of them more than once. They all participated in all the youth activities, etc. We have been probably 75% active over our marriage, with the biggest drop-offs during 9:00 am block times as 9:00 am is TOO FREAKING EARLY FOR CHURCH. 11:00 is perfect.

We have tried to do the "right things" with probably an 60% rate of FHE and family prayer and scripture study. Regular monthly date-nights with each kid we go over their goals and what they want to do in their lives and stress the importance of mission and temple marriage, etc. Father's blessings and other blessings as the situation may warrant (illness, start of school year, tough time in kids life, etc.)

But in the end, no matter what you do, or don't do, they choose for themselves what they believe, and they will act on it as part of their own free agency. It is hard to get my wife to see this and recognize all she can do at this point is love them, provide wise and loving counsel, and accept them for who they are. So we try to teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves. Sounds good, but in this culture, where you know you are being talked about, and often looked down on, if your family doesn't meet the high requirements set forth by the unwritten rules of mormon societal norms, it doesn't hold a lot of water. The sins of the sons will be answered on the heads of the fathers, so to speak.

Is it really any wonder, in a culture with pressures like that, that is so all-pervasive, that when people do pry themselves away from it, depending on how deep they were in it to begin with, there is going to be bitterness and anger and lashing out, as it would feel like you are tearing yourself apart at the core, and the church would be to blame.

Wow log, thanks for sharing.... sounds tough and I hope things work out for you and your family.
 
I think it is MUCH more prevalent an issue in Utah. As it seems it obviously would...

@log - you're right that free agency trumps parenting. My wife's parents were perfect parents and my wife rebelled and went crazy for awhile (she revisits crazy from time to time).
My father snorted coke in front of me and basically showed me a life not to live.. no discussion of God. When I turned 18 I went in search of God and always steered clear of tge things I saw my dad do.

What's sad is when religion becomes merely a vehicle to fit in or instill fear in people to act a certain way. It's suppose to be about faith in God and a love for Him that bears good fruits. Not about peer pressure.
 
Some of you are acting like it's weird for people to crusade against something they feel victimized by and view as evil. Magnify an unwelcomed attack by a stranger by whatever psychological effects that a lifelong attack from the entire culture you grew up in and then you'll understand the hater exmo pov. Feeling betrayed and abused by those you trust is guaranteed to volatilize a good fraction of those involved.
 
I'm, for all intents and purposes, an ex-mormon, but I've never been antagonistic to the church publicly or privately. I don't have any ill-will towards the church in anyway, I just don't believe anything about it. I suppose you could say that it's just not for me.

I went on a full two year mission to South Korea, and many from my mission (a significant number) are currently inactive and none of them went off the deep end. I know two people from high school who are angry at the Mormon church. One got the **** beat out of him in eastern europe like three times and the other is a militant lesbian who works at a bar.

This is all anecdotal but it's a counterpoint to Beanclown's experience. The majority of my friends who are not currently active(maybe 20) are not, in any way shape or form, angry or obsessed at or with the LDS church. The reason you hear about it is simply because the ones who are angry, are also loud. I'm not loud about my disbelief, who cares? It's not a big deal. You wouldn't know about any of these types of people because WTF would they tell you about it or post about it on facebook (lifeinvader)? They really don't care.

thank you for reading

~Safetydan
 
Some of you are acting like it's weird for people to crusade against something they feel victimized by and view as evil. Magnify an unwelcomed attack by a stranger by whatever psychological effects that a lifelong attack from the entire culture you grew up in and then you'll understand the hater exmo pov. Feeling betrayed and abused by those you trust is guaranteed to volatilize a good fraction of those involved.

Most people don't feel betrayed or abused. They just don't believe what the church is saying. Those who do feel victimized obviously(probably) have a good reason to be pissed.
 
Like safetydan, I don't feel betrayed or abused, I just don't believe (I'm assuming he belongs to this group). That's not to say the transition out of the church (served a full-time mission, attended BYU for a while, taught at the MTC) was easy. Perhaps the 3 things that have been the most difficult for me (in terms of completely forgetting about the 10 years I spent as a Mormon):

1. In Provo, what's expected of you is known. 100%. Stepping out of a world like that is both liberating and overwhelming/scary.

2. It's hard to maintain friendships (for me, at least) with Mormons, as it's inevitable someone will slip and tell you what they really think: That you still really believe and will someday find your way back to the church. That fundamental lack of respect hurts. Leaving the church is for many a very lonely endeavor (fortunately, the rest of my immediate family had a foot out the door, and weren't raised in the church).

3. I went out for two years trying to convert people to Mormonism. I sometimes feel I have a responsibility to steer people away from that path, especially since I know some of the manipulative methods encouraged and used by missionaries (the commitment pattern, milk before meat, pray until you get the correct answer, searching for new births, deaths and move-ins as they often lead to people more susceptible to conversion). It's been 8 years since I decided to leave, and I still haven't done much of anything, besides speaking honestly about my thoughts and feelings to those who ask, in this regard.
 
Last edited:
I'll still defend the church to some degree, even though I'm not a part of it.

Yeah, I do too sometimes. It's annoying when people bash the church for the wrong reasons. The typical "they have multiple wives thing".

Most people that I've heard talk bad about Mormons know very little about them, and/or aren't objective people.
 
Yeah, I do too sometimes. It's annoying when people bash the church for the wrong reasons. The typical "they have multiple wives thing".

Most people that I've heard talk bad about Mormons know very little about them, and/or aren't objective people.

I had someone once hand me a pamphlet about the Church. They were standing on the street next to the SLC Temple, handing them out. They were being all nice and polite. So I took one and read it. In part it talked about one woman's experience in the SLC Temple, which we were standing next to. Supposedly she had been raped on the alter in the holy of holies by the "priests" of the church, and she managed to escape by jumping out the window into the great salt lake and swimming away. I asked the guy if he had read the pamphlet himself, of course he had, he said. I said, can you point to the window she jumped out to escape into the great salt lake. He glowered at me and refused to point. I said wow she must have one hell of a jump, that is a LONG ****ing way to the great salt lake from there, seriously strong legs that chick had, or maybe wings even. He glowered at me again and moved away. I followed him and handed him back his pamphlet.
 
Yeah, I do too sometimes. It's annoying when people bash the church for the wrong reasons.

Annoying to me as well. I don't see/hear much bashing for polygamy, but I frequently run across things like
- thousands of changes in the Book of Mormon (no... if you discount spelling/punctuation, there are just a handful)
- DNA proves Book of Mormon is wrong (no, not really, it just proves that the Nephites/Lamanites were not the only settlers)

Goodness knows there are plenty of legit criticisms, so it bugs me when people focus on bogus things like those.

Anyway, to respond to the OP - I haven't seen that. Nearly 100% of the people that I know that have gone away from the church pretty much just want to be left alone by it.
 
I agree with Colton here with one noted exception. Those who can't leave it behind, for whatever reason, are exceptionally vocal and aggressive in their attacks.
 
It is the vocal minority again driving the stereotype, as is usually the case.
 
It is the vocal minority again driving the stereotype, as is usually the case.

That said, I have never liked it when people use that as a convenient excuse to dismiss the entire issue or discussion. "Just another stereotype, nothing to see here folks." It's a lazy out to escape from talking about difficult subjects. Vocal minority or not they still represent real people affected by real issues.
 
Our daughter who just turned 18 and graduated from High School this year was far more active than our son and has been talking about a mission for the past 2-3 years, ever since she went to EFY. That is, until her boyfriend of 2 years, who is going to BYU Idaho, decided he wasn't going on a mission because he doesn't know if he even believes in God and started pressuring her to come to BYU Idaho with him. She now wants to transfer there instead of go on her mission.

My brother is a return missionary and active member of the church. He went to BYU Idaho after his mission and his experience there was not very good. He complained that the school was academically not challenging at all and that Rexburg is full of mormons that are very judgmental.(remember this is a return missionary whom now lives in Utah county). I think that I would council her to go to a different school and a town that will offer her better experiences. Utah state is in Logan so she would still be fairly close to her boyfriend, just sayin.
 
My brother is a return missionary and active member of the church. He went to BYU Idaho after his mission and his experience there was not very good. He complained that the school was academically not challenging at all and that Rexburg is full of mormons that are very judgmental.(remember this is a return missionary whom now lives in Utah county). I think that I would council her to go to a different school and a town that will offer her better experiences. Utah state is in Logan so she would still be fairly close to her boyfriend, just sayin.

Oh we have a long and painful history with Rick's college. My wife went there right out of high school, mid-80's, thinking she was getting the mormon experience she had always wanted, and was stunned by the full-on debauchery that went on behind the scenes. I know when I was in High School Rick's was the place to go to party and have your parents still think you are in a good mormon school. I knew more than a few kids who went there to lose their viriginity so they wouldn't have to feel guilty about it, before they went on their missions. I won't get into my wife's experiences. Let's just say she changed from the sweet and innocent molly mormon she was in high school to someone much more wise in the ways, and sorrows, of the world, while at Ricks. It was overwhelming for her and fundamentally changed her, and not in ways she wanted to be changed.

We knew a man who was a bishop in a Rick's branch, maybe 6 or 7 years after we got married, might be different now, but he told us he asked to be released because the kids he was dealing with he had to recommend all of them for expulsion as they were coming in with the worst possible stories of breaking the honor code, almost bragging about it, and then just asking for a slap on the wrist. Drugs, sex, parties off-campus, multiple partners, drunken "pass-the-girl" parties, etc. He said if he did what he was supposed to the school would lose half the students in a week, and he just couldn't take it anymore.

In my mind it will always be a cesspool. I hope they can change that all around, but the more recent stories I hear are no different.

My daughter's boyfriend told her that within the first month of school (this September) 5 of his 6 room mates were expelled for honor code violations. Another kid was kicked out for selling marijuana, apparently it is a pretty strong market for it. We have already tried to steer her elsewhere. Here at UNR she has a scholarship and everything (like a place to live so she doesn't have to pay rent) and it would make a lot more sense, but since when do 18 year olds, especially ones with boy/girlfriends make decisions based on what makes sense, right?
 
I have numerous friends and family members who were once stalwart mormons, who have since moved on. Their levels of acrimony toward the church vary. Most just don't believe, so they take a different path, and that's the end of it. One of my best friends growing up is like this. He served a mission (an interesting aside: I waffled about serving a mission when I was 19, but finally ended up going, at age 21, largely because of his example...) but is now completely inactive. I have an aunt that I have always been very close to (because she is only a year older than me) who, if the term "Molly Mormon" had a poster child, she would have been. She was married in the temple, too young, and when her married failed a few years later, instead of supporting, her ward (in northern California) was judgmental and made her a pariah in the congregation. Subsequently, she carries a lot of resentment and bitterness, and is eager to express it when the opportunity arises.

There are as many circumstances as there are people who leave.
 
This has been the most respectful yet open religious thread I've seen on here to date.
Nice job fellas.
 
...so far. :)

Sent from my HTC One using JazzFanz mobile app

007A6D9C45994299B3ECB58C3B3A27ED.ashx
 
Back
Top