That's not what he said at all.
LDS general conference - Fall 2013
- Thread starter colton
- Start date
That's not what he said at all.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
What DID colton mean by that?
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
It is how I truly feel. I really try to be understanding and open minded but I guess I am just being honest today. I find both the bible and the Book of Mormon to be morally deplorable. Why is it ok for people to hold sexist and homophobic views simply because it is part of their religion. If I said and believed those things I would be responsible for them yet I am supposed to let it slide when someone says "It's part of my faith". BS.
Zulu
Well-Known Member
Charlize Theron... Am I right???
Zulu
Well-Known Member
Women can have the priesthood in the LDS church!!!
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
What I said was uncalled for and derogatory, I apologize. I will erase it.
Sorry I keep coming back to this every few days colton, but I pick it up when I have time. Lots of the last two days of jazzfanz time got spent on Archibald and Honzward.
The previous sentence in that article indicates that the number to get to a 30% estimate (and everyone is giving estimates) comes from a comparison between claimed church members by the LDS organization vs. census numbers in developed countries. I did an example of this arithmetic in my previous post for Brazil whereby the church claims 1,138,740 members in Brazil, but in the 2010 census only 225,695 Brazilians claimed they were LDS. In other words 93% of the supposed church membership in Brazil is missing.
Obviously Brazil is an extreme case (although oddly one that the church brings up of its own accord very frequently) but that's how you go about making estimates of this kind.
Less thorough estimates exist for the United States (because nothing is more thorough than a census), but the Pew Research organization determined the percentage of self-described mormons in the United States is about 1.7%.
https://www.pewforum.org/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/
In adding up all the data I could find from the 2012 church release, I estimate claimed US church membership at 6,331,380 or approximately 2.3% of the US population. That puts active membership at around 66% for the United States, but at a much lower rate in the rest of the world. To some extent this isn't surprising given that the LDS church is a largely regional religion.
I think you're quibbling some here. For one thing, I note that your'e not disputing the discrepancies between LDS death rates vs. those of everyone else in the United States or the world. I think one of the questions you need to be asking yourself is "how many claimed church members are actually living human beings on the planet earth"
Secondly, the powerpoint I linked to is not an anti-mormon source. It's from a self-described believing member.
Thirdly, cumorah staffs a person whose apparent job is "church growth researcher." No description of education is given by anyone on the cumorah website but I think a quick look at the "church growth researchers" blog (https://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/) is indicative that he's not a total yahoo and doesn't appear to have any bias against the church. In fact, I've never seen a more exhaustive or complete information source regarding church/stake openings or growth numbers. As his source for his belief in a 30% activity rate worldwide he states:
The LDS Church doesn't directly release those numbers, but that seems like the fairest estimation procedure I can get ahold of.
Come on colton, look at those death rates again and tell me there isn't a serious institutional bias problem with how the numbers are calculated? Do you really think there's not a problem with a system where gains are locked in forever and losses are assumed to absurdly low rates?
The previous sentence in that article indicates that the number to get to a 30% estimate (and everyone is giving estimates) comes from a comparison between claimed church members by the LDS organization vs. census numbers in developed countries. I did an example of this arithmetic in my previous post for Brazil whereby the church claims 1,138,740 members in Brazil, but in the 2010 census only 225,695 Brazilians claimed they were LDS. In other words 93% of the supposed church membership in Brazil is missing.
Obviously Brazil is an extreme case (although oddly one that the church brings up of its own accord very frequently) but that's how you go about making estimates of this kind.
Less thorough estimates exist for the United States (because nothing is more thorough than a census), but the Pew Research organization determined the percentage of self-described mormons in the United States is about 1.7%.
https://www.pewforum.org/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/
In adding up all the data I could find from the 2012 church release, I estimate claimed US church membership at 6,331,380 or approximately 2.3% of the US population. That puts active membership at around 66% for the United States, but at a much lower rate in the rest of the world. To some extent this isn't surprising given that the LDS church is a largely regional religion.
I think you're quibbling some here. For one thing, I note that your'e not disputing the discrepancies between LDS death rates vs. those of everyone else in the United States or the world. I think one of the questions you need to be asking yourself is "how many claimed church members are actually living human beings on the planet earth"
Secondly, the powerpoint I linked to is not an anti-mormon source. It's from a self-described believing member.
Thirdly, cumorah staffs a person whose apparent job is "church growth researcher." No description of education is given by anyone on the cumorah website but I think a quick look at the "church growth researchers" blog (https://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/) is indicative that he's not a total yahoo and doesn't appear to have any bias against the church. In fact, I've never seen a more exhaustive or complete information source regarding church/stake openings or growth numbers. As his source for his belief in a 30% activity rate worldwide he states:
The LDS Church doesn't directly release those numbers, but that seems like the fairest estimation procedure I can get ahold of.
Come on colton, look at those death rates again and tell me there isn't a serious institutional bias problem with how the numbers are calculated? Do you really think there's not a problem with a system where gains are locked in forever and losses are assumed to absurdly low rates?
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Well, we certainly agree on that.
The statement I disagree with is that one must think of women as secondary to men in order to believe in the Book of Mormon, and that because of that the movement to ordain women to the priesthood is somehow fundamentally flawed.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Isn't that what the Book of Mormon says though? Isn't that what Brigham Young said was the truth? If all of church history says that only men will be ordained than that is the way it is. If you don't believe that is true than you don't fully/really believe in the church or its history.
The former is everything I was taught growing up and I'm not even 30 yet. It doesn't really make sense to me that the supposed one true church - that has the ability to commune directly with god - revises it's own beliefs at a frankly staggering rate.
I'm hoping this is the only post I will make in this thread, and I'm hoping the church grants priesthood to women one day both for the benefit of those women that I don't understand but also so I have another thing to point at and lose my mind over.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Does it?