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Tom Nissalke postgame show

hell ill give you twenty guys better than granger, thirty guys better than lopez, and forty guys better than noah and scola if you want
 
in no particular order
bron
wade
kobe
durant
howard
cp3
dwill
bosh
pau
duncan
rondo
pierce
nash
rose
roy
amare
joe johnson
boozer
nowitzki
anthony
evans
westbrook
granger
billups
big al
jsmoove
iguadola
garnett
tonyparker
ginobili
gerald wallace
steph curry
lee
yao
jennings
lopez
bogut
aldridge
kidd
horford

tell me scola or noah are better than any of those guys,
 
Scola: 22.2 ppg 13.2 rpg 2.6 apg .528 fg%

Noah: 16.2 ppg 14.2 rpg 2.4 apg 1.8 bpg .545%

All those dudes you listed are good. I'm not saying they're not. When I look at top ten or so on, I think about position as well. I wouldn't say that Scola and Noah are top ten with the guys I have listed, but they have to be up there. Especially because they dominate at their position. Scola is very underrated and Noah is a beast. Now, their numbers will come down for sure this year, but those two guys are putting up amazing numbers. And if you've watched their teams play, they're not the reasoning their losing imo.
 
Archie Moses said:
Scola: 22.2 ppg 13.2 rpg 2.6 apg .528 fg%

Noah: 16.2 ppg 14.2 rpg 2.4 apg 1.8 bpg .545%

All those dudes you listed are good. I'm not saying they're not. When I look at top ten or so on, I think about position as well. I wouldn't say that Scola and Noah are top ten with the guys I have listed, but they have to be up there. Especially because they dominate at their position. Scola is very underrated and Noah is a beast. Now, their numbers will come down for sure this year, but those two guys are putting up amazing numbers. And if you've watched their teams play, they're not the reasoning their losing imo.
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take out this season, which is like 5 games and scola's career ppg+rpg is like 11-7 and noah's is like 9-8... (and thats rounding up)
hardly what i call domination. who on my list does not dominate their positions better than these two? and yes, i know you cant measure defense. i still stand by my claim
 
ruca said:
in no particular order

rose
amare
joe johnson
boozer
westbrook
granger
billups
jsmoove
iguadola
tonyparker
ginobili
gerald wallace
steph curry
lee
yao
jennings
bogut
aldridge
horford

tell me scola or noah are better than any of those guys,
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Scola and Noah are better than these guys.
 
ruca said:
take out this season, which is like 5 games and scola's career ppg+rpg is like 11-7 and noah's is like 9-8... (and thats rounding up)
hardly what i call domination. who on my list does not dominate their positions better than these two? and yes, i know you cant measure defense. i still stand by my claim
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Noah and Scola's ability to guard big men and guard well are the main reasons of why they are so valuable. (Yes, I do realize Scola is a stretch, and I hate guy. But I got to give him props. He's very underrated. I would much rather have him over Yao.)
 
Archie Moses said:
Scola and Noah are better than these guys.
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...and THAT ladies and gentlemen, is why Archie Moses is not an NBA GM. i know the "whos better than who" arguments are always objective, but at some point you just end up being ridiculous. just because you like player x more than player y doesnt make him a better player.

ill admit though, scola and noah arent the two players i pay the MOST attention to (although i have watched them plenty) so ill give you the benefit of the doubt (with a LOT of benefit) when you say theyre better than horford, lee, jsmith and jennings. but point is, neither are anywhere close to being a top 10 player in the nba.
 
Archie Moses said:
Noah and Scola's ability to guard big men and guard well are the main reasons of why they are so valuable. (Yes, I do realize Scola is a stretch, and I hate guy. But I got to give him props. He's very underrated. I would much rather have him over Yao.)
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they can guard that opposing elite big man to shreds, he'll still score 10 more pts than scola or noah AND his team will leave the arena with the double-U. healthy yao is the best big in the game, scola is a great fourth option
 
ruca said:
...and THAT ladies and gentlemen, is why Archie Moses is not an NBA GM. i know the "whos better than who" arguments are always objective, but at some point you just end up being ridiculous. just because you like player x more than player y doesnt make him a better player.

ill admit though, scola and noah arent the two players i pay the MOST attention to (although i have watched them plenty) so ill give you the benefit of the doubt (with a LOT of benefit) when you say theyre better than horford, lee, jsmith and jennings. but point is, neither are anywhere close to being a top 10 player in the nba.
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You would really rather have Horford or Lee over Noah? Jennings? bwhahaha I'm assuming you probably just know he scored 50 once. Dude is a terrible shooter and even worse defender. Lee is good, if you like undersized PF's. Smith is great, I do like him. I just don't think he's a go to guy/leader.
 
ruca said:
they can guard that opposing elite big man to shreds, he'll still score 10 more pts than scola or noah AND his team will leave the arena with the double-U. healthy yao is the best big in the game, scola is a great fourth option
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Sadly, a healthy Yao doesn't exist. A healthy McGrady/Oden/Redd/Arenas/examples would dominate too, right? Live in reality, dude.
 
Archie Moses said:
You would really rather have Horford or Lee over Noah? Jennings? bwhahaha I'm assuming you probably just know he scored 50 once. Dude is a terrible shooter and even worse defender. Lee is good, if you like undersized PF's. Smith is great, I do like him. I just don't think he's a go to guy/leader.
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horford and lee over noah anyday (dont forget horford plays out of position and is a PF at heart)
jennings can run a team and has a boatload of pottential
scola is smaller than lee
and are either scola or noah go to guys/leaders?

anyway, im going to bed archie thanks for giving me my first ever pointless jazzfanz argument. now i feel like a real member of this forum
 
Top 10's are hard to say. What's the criteria? Is it potential? Is it experience? Is it performance? Scola has played at an incredible level so far this year and the same with Noah. I would love to have a guy like Noah on any team I'm cheering for. The guy is intense and plays his guts out. It's hard to find a big man with his talents and drive for the game. Scola is getting the best out of his minutes this year (and the end of last) because he doesn't have to share them with Landry. Again, I'm not even a fan of Scola or Noah (I actually can't stand the two) but I'm not that big of a homer to act like a) they are a dime a dozen b) they suck c)they're 40 guys better than them right now (especially with how important PF's and C's are in the league) and d) Their defense doesn't matter. With that said, I already said in my first post there are a ton of guys you can make arguments for right now. I'm not leaving these two out of the argument.


https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/03/introducing-the-new-and-old-luis-scola/?src=twrhp

The beginning of the season has not been kind to the Houston Rockets. Not only have the first three games brought just as many losses, but along with those losses come painful reminders of the limitations of both Yao Ming and the team as a whole. Houston has been the worst defensive outfit in the league, allowing a miserable 116.2 points per 100 possessions. The cap on Yao’s minutes has made the center’s return bittersweet, and the Rockets’ efforts, commendable but futile, equally so.

Houston’s 0-3 record casts a dark shadow over each and every Rocket, but it’s best that we don’t neglect the early-season effulgence of Luis Scola. He has been performing at an all-world level to start the year, and his high-level production has much more staying power than one might think.

For the young 2010-11 season, Scola is averaging 27.3 points a game (good for third in the N.B.A.) and 14.0 rebounds a game (which also puts him at third in the league). He is completing 56.9 percent of his field goal attempts and turning the ball over just 1.7 times a night. Those are fantastic numbers that, based on Scola’s past per game production, would seem unsustainable. But by taking into account Scola’s full statistical profile, it seems possible that the Rockets forward may be able to produce consistently at an elite level for the entire season.

Scola shared minutes with Carl Landry at power forward last season, but once Houston traded Landry to the Sacramento Kings and allowed Scola to assume full-time duties, his production spiked. If we view Scola’s current production as a natural evolution of his role from that point, his statistical improvements seem neither random nor unexplainable. There are some inconsistencies – a startlingly high true shooting percentage and effective field goal percentage, both of which should regress toward the mean – but otherwise, Scola is doing the same things he has always done, only with more opportunities than ever.

He is using those opportunities wisely. Not only is Scola taking and making more shots, but he’s also getting to the free throw line with greater regularity. His free throw attempts per game have jumped from 3.3 to 7.0, largely because of finally having a central role in the Rockets’ offense. Aaron Brooks and Kevin Martin are skilled scorers, but Scola is Houston’s most proficient, and he’s finally being used accordingly. We’ve seen him function as an offensive centerpiece for the Argentine national team before (with impressive results), but Scola has finally gotten the chance to be as effective in the N.B.A. as he long has been in international play.

The Rockets’ style certainly helps. Houston has been the second fastest team in the league this season, and with those extra possessions come more opportunities for Scola and the rest of the Rockets. Scola’s scoring efficiency may dip as the season progresses, but as long as Houston continues to push the pace, his overall numbers should be sound. This level of production, or at least something in the same ballpark, is within Scola’s grasp. It’s not because he has suddenly turned some corner at 30 years old. Scola has not evolved, or drastically changed his game in any sense. For the last few years, he has been this strong of an offensive pillar, and only now is he being asked to carry the appropriate load.

Scola’s 27 and 14, the marks of his early season dominance, are significant but arbitrary. They’re quantitatively impressive, but more important is the garnered understanding that Luis Scola, somewhat of an afterthought on the national basketball scene, is capable of championing an elite offense. The precise measurements of his offensive brilliance are simply a means to that end. Scola’s season averages will undoubtedly begin to edge downward, but we should not overvalue the import of such a drop-off. He’ll still be this good. He’ll still be this valuable. He’ll still be this Luis Scola.

All statistics used in this post are courtesy of Basketball-Reference.com.

Rob Mahoney is an obsessive student of professional basketball, dedicated to the minutiae, the overarching themes and everything in between. You can read more of his work at TheTwoManGame.com, HardwoodParoxy
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I'd definitely take Horford over Noah and not even give it a full second's thought.
 
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