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Julie Greengiant said:
well define superstar. is the best player on the best team a superstar? is a guy averaging 20-10 a superstar?
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Id say top ten player in the league probably.

I think kyrie irving and paul george are both better than anyone from favors draft and I think there are 3 or 4 guys coming out next year that would go before the #1 pick that year (wall)
 
You make a good case julie
 
Spence Checkettes told an interesting story about the Knicks. He said in the '89 season, Ernie Grunfield traded Charles Oakley for Marcus Camby. Oakley was VanGundy's guy and was pissed. He wouldn't play Camby and he and Grundfield openly fought andeventually stopped talking. Checkettes dad fired Grunfield because he had a different agenda than the coach.

I'm willing to bet that Dennis Lindsey has not told Ty to tank. He probably thinks he doesn't need to say it to Ty after they didn't sign Millsap. Ty thinks that he is being judged on wins and losses and Dennis has said all along it's about defense and development. The Jazz are dysfunctional because Ty and DL are not on the same page. This is why Ty has to go and go now.
 
sojodave said:
Spence Checkettes told an interesting story about the Knicks. He said in the '89 season, Ernie Grunfield traded Charles Oakley for Marcus Camby. Oakley was VanGundy's guy and was pissed. He wouldn't play Camby and he and Grundfield openly fought andeventually stopped talking. Checkettes dad fired Grunfield because he had a different agenda than the coach.

I'm willing to bet that Dennis Lindsey has not told Ty to tank. He probably thinks he doesn't need to say it to Ty after they didn't sign Millsap. Ty thinks that he is being judged on wins and losses and Dennis has said all along it's about defense and development. The Jazz are dysfunctional because Ty and DL are not on the same page. This is why Ty has to go and go now.
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I think that Ty has been straight up told that it is not about wins and losses this year. That has been put out there by pretty much everyone.
 
What complicates all of this is that the race to the bottom in the NBA this year is an unexpectedly competitive one. Usually, a record as bad as the Jazz record this year would ensure you one of the top three picks. This year, however, there are several teams with as bad or nearly as bad records, a few of which are, like the Jazz, in full tanking mode. legit competitors in the race to the bottom include Sacramento, Milwaukee, Toronto, Philadelphia, New York, Orlando, and Washington and Charlotte may yet enter the fray. All it takes is one good winning streak, and your odds of landing one of the top picks can significantly diminish.

So, in the normal course of things, we wouldn't sweat out finishing with 25 wins for the season; this year, however, 25 wins may well place you out of the top 3 picks. It's a crazy year, and given all of the above, it's that much more important that, if we are in tank mode, that we fully commit to the tank.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
What complicates all of this is that the race to the bottom in the NBA this year is an unexpectedly competitive one. Usually, a record as bad as the Jazz record this year would ensure you one of the top three picks. This year, however, there are several teams with as bad or nearly as bad records, a few of which are, like the Jazz, in full tanking mode. legit competitors in the race to the bottom include Sacramento, Milwaukee, Toronto, Philadelphia, New York, Orlando, and Washington and Charlotte may yet enter the fray. All it takes is one good winning streak, and your odds of landing one of the top picks can significantly diminish.

So, in the normal course of things, we wouldn't sweat out finishing with 25 wins for the season; this year, however, 25 wins may well place you out of the top 3 picks. It's a crazy year, and given all of the above, it's that much more important that, if we are in tank mode, that we fully commit to the tank.
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I would remove New York and Charlotte fromt hat list. New York does not own their pick. They and Charlotte have to high profile of pieces to tank. They are in attempting to win mode.
 
Stoked said:
I would remove New York and Charlotte fromt hat list. New York does not own their pick. They and Charlotte have to high profile of pieces to tank. They are in attempting to win mode.
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Not really the point the point is we have half a league that is eventually going to end up tanking. Why not be wise with our current record and tank like there is a tomorrow (or a next season to look forward to)
 
sojodave said:
Spence Checkettes told an interesting story about the Knicks. He said in the '89 season, Ernie Grunfield traded Charles Oakley for Marcus Camby. Oakley was VanGundy's guy and was pissed. He wouldn't play Camby and he and Grundfield openly fought andeventually stopped talking. Checkettes dad fired Grunfield because he had a different agenda than the coach.

I'm willing to bet that Dennis Lindsey has not told Ty to tank. He probably thinks he doesn't need to say it to Ty after they didn't sign Millsap. Ty thinks that he is being judged on wins and losses and Dennis has said all along it's about defense and development. The Jazz are dysfunctional because Ty and DL are not on the same page. This is why Ty has to go and go now.
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I am willing to bet that Ty and DL talk continually and that there are no secrets. IMO acting like there is any kind of secret around something this significant is preposterous. DL is smart enough to know that going out and getting the crapped kicked out of your team every night is demoralizing and is no way to build a team.
 
One Brow said:
Why do you think Burke is not getting developed?
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bet you if tinsley or mo williams was still on this team he would be starting.

it is just that jl3 has been really really realy really horrible.
and other option is also a (undrafted?) rookie.

so development by commitee. also i dont think burke is being developed the offense is run through hayward most of the times burke his job is to bring the ball up and stand in the corner.
waste of time.
i would start the game off with favors burke pick and roll until the other team can defend it. then switch to penetrate by bruke and kick out(like he was doing the first few games before he got on corbfense).

so yeah i dont think burke is being properly developed
he does get a gazzilion minutes but thats just because jefefrson and maarvin williams dont pley point guard
 
DutchJazzer said:
bet you if tinsley or mo williams was still on this team he would be starting.

it is just that jl3 has been really really realy really horrible.
and other option is also a (undrafted?) rookie.

so development by commitee. also i dont think burke is being developed the offense is run through hayward most of the times burke his job is to bring the ball up and stand in the corner.
waste of time.
i would start the game off with favors burke pick and roll until the other team can defend it. then switch to penetrate by bruke and kick out(like he was doing the first few games before he got on corbfense).

so yeah i dont think burke is being properly developed
he does get a gazzilion minutes but thats just because jefefrson and maarvin williams dont pley point guard
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Playing Jefferson and Marvin IS developing Burke. In order to learn the Point guard position it is imperative to have people that can play organized ball and be where they are supposed to be. There was a reason Burke struggled in Summer League, and its because his teammates were absolute crap and were playing jungle ball. Burke will never develop in that environment. Kanter has enough talent to take the starting job, but hasn't played well enough to do it. You can't hand the starting job to Kanter until he shows a pulse. My opinion is that Kanter just isn't right physically and has absolutely little or no craftiness to his game that he can compensate with. What little craftiness he does have can be sensed and stopped by experienced NBA starters. Kanter will either need to recover physically or develop a more cerebral game against NBA second stringers before we can consider starting him again.
 
sojodave said:
Spence Checkettes told an interesting story about the Knicks. He said in the '89 season, Ernie Grunfield traded Charles Oakley for Marcus Camby. Oakley was VanGundy's guy and was pissed. He wouldn't play Camby and he and Grundfield openly fought andeventually stopped talking. Checkettes dad fired Grunfield because he had a different agenda than the coach.

I'm willing to bet that Dennis Lindsey has not told Ty to tank. He probably thinks he doesn't need to say it to Ty after they didn't sign Millsap. Ty thinks that he is being judged on wins and losses and Dennis has said all along it's about defense and development. The Jazz are dysfunctional because Ty and DL are not on the same page. This is why Ty has to go and go now.
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Let's say you fire Ty today. Who do you replace him with? Realistically. Remember, Phil Jackson, SVG, Karl aren't going to take over a team that is designed to lose.
 
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