Lots of trade rumors popping up about Hayward to boston?

[b_line]

Gordon has the upper hand if this scenario takes place. Overpaying for any player is bad business. Haven't the Ostertag and AK contracts proven what happens when you overpay.

Those are completely different scenarios. Ostertag flat out was lazy and did not play well. AK had a way bigger contract than Hayward will be eligible for, and the salary cap was lower then, so the percentage of cap room that AK's contract took was much larger. AK maxed out at like 18 mil per year under a less than 60 million per year cap. Hayward's contract maxes out at about 15.5 mil per year, under a salary cap that could be closer to $70 million. HUGE difference in the scenarios between the two players.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Exactly. We still have the upper hand no matter what. The Jazz can make it known out there that we will match whatever offer Hayward recieves from other teams in the offseason...

Except that it's already known that the Jazz won't since they couldn't come to terms on the extension.

 

[addictionary]

If Hayward is a goner, Utah better secure that pick for the forward. I'm sure it's just talk though.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Except that it's already known that the Jazz won't since they couldn't come to terms on the extension.

That's a leap in logic that I think is flawed. Jazz did not know before the season how Hayward would respond to being the team leader. He struggled early, but has shown signs recently of adapting his mentality and game. IMO, he was trying to do way too much. With Burks in the line-up he no longer has to play PG AND SG.

What the Jazz were doing is essentially saying "prove it." You're a bit of an unknown quantity and this is the amount of money we are willing to offer NOW. Favors took the money and the security of a new contract. Gordon decided to roll the dice and see if he could get a bigger payday.

Jazz were willing to match for Millsap, but wanted him to establish his value. He did; Portland gave him an offer sheet and Utah matched. If some team offers Gordon a contract, they'll need to free up that money, then have that cap space tied up while Utah decides whether to match or not. That's a risk. IINM, even IF Gordon were to reach a verbal agreement in the 10 days prior to real free agency, the clock doesn't start ticking until FA officially begins. In essence, that's TWO weeks that a team like Boston would have to say to player "X" - "hey, you're our second choice...if Utah DOESN'T match, we'll call you." And if Player "X" is any good, he'd have multiple other suitors and would not wait.

The market for RFA's is often softer than their perceived value specifically for that reason. And with Utah's cap room, there's no "poison pill" any team could put in a contract to make it impossible for Utah to match.

 

[b_line]

Except that it's already known that the Jazz won't since they couldn't come to terms on the extension.

I disagree with this. To me, the Jazz saying that they did not want to pay Hayward what he wanted before the season was just them saying "go out and earn it, and we will give you what you deserve." If that is the max, then they will pay the max. If it is less than what he was asking, then they will pay that. The way Hayward is playing, it is getting closer and closer to the max right now. He is basically matching Paul George's production from last season, and that was when Paul George got the max. Granted, George took huge steps in the playoffs last year, and the beginning of this season. George was a guy who you give every cent the league will allow you to (5 year, $80 million contract). Hayward is getting closer to the guy that you give the 4 year, $58 or so million contract to.

 

[default]

This is what it comes down to: Why would it make sense for Utah, and why would it make sense for Boston. I'll start with Boston. Here is Boston's core:

PG - Rondo
SG -
SF - Green, Wallace
PF - Sullinger
C - Olynyk

20 million in cap space and a TON of future draft picks. Boston has a VERY nice core. So, what do they have to offer?

Humphries, Olynyk and maybe Green.
2014 pick from Brooklyn/Atl (right now #20)
2015 LAC pick (20's)
2016 unprotected 1st from Brooklyn
2018 1st from Brooklyn

So, they don't have a ton to give up. BUT, Hayward would fit perfectly in their blueprint right now. He can play the 2 or 3, can shoot (compliments Sullinger and Rondo), and good chemistry guy. Hayward fits in perfectly. And let's be honest here, odds are, if they could pry Hayward away from Utah, Hayward would be better than Green or any pick they would send. Plus, they might be able to sign him cheaper than if they went after him as a RFA.

Hayward would be perfect for Boston. Especially if Boston ended up with Wiggins or Parker or Embiid. That is a heck of a team:

Rondo
Hayward
Wiggins/Parker
Sully
Embiid/Olynyk

Plus you can add a max player (or two if you trade Green).

Boston is contending in a year or two with that team.

So, why would Utah trade Hayward? They won't get equal value back. Utah considers trading Hayward for one reason: Money. If they don't want to pay Hayward. Now, could Boston send any semblance of a package back for Hayward? Nope. UNLESS, Utah likes Burks and wants Parker/Wiggins. Then the Jazz are getting two things from Boston: Financial relief and a possible Hall of Famer.

If I am Utah, I want Green because he is a solid player and can start for you or come off the bench. I also want one great first or two so-so firsts. If I am Utah, I want the 2016 and 2018 firsts from Brooklyn. Those are great picks, because there is a chance they end up being really good picks. And if they aren't, you have two picks in 2016, 2017, 2018 and you should be very good by then, so you can use those picks on role players, trade for role players, or trade up for a key player.

I don't budge from that stance. Worst case scenario, Boston says no and I keep Hayward, a very good player. Best case scenario? Boston says yes, I get Green and sit him the rest of the year, I get Jabari, and a ton of picks and am contending really quickly.

Green, are you just pimping this trade because you want someone with the name "Green" on the Jazz? Maybe you are secretly Jeff Green and a closet Utah Jazz fan pushing their own trade.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Has Hayward gone out and "earned it"? He's shooting an all-time low eFG% and his win shares are lower than any season besides his rookie year. His scoring rate hasn't improved from last year (it's actually slightly down), either.

Based on everything I've seen with my eye AND a look over some of his advanced stats, he looks like a young player that's trying to earn his big payday but has pretty much become what he's going to become and shouldering a bigger load than he should.

 

[b_line]

Has Hayward gone out and "earned it"? He's shooting an all-time low eFG% and his win shares are lower than any season besides his rookie year. His scoring rate hasn't improved from last year (it's actually slightly down), either.

He is playing well. He is going to get huge offers from some teams, and the Jazz have to decide if they want to pay him, or trade him. While he may be less efficient, he is averaging career highs in everything but shooting percentage. And his shooting percentages are steadily rising

 

[akirac73]

Gordon has the upper hand if this scenario takes place. Overpaying for any player is bad business. Haven't the Ostertag and AK contracts proven what happens when you overpay.

What the Jazz say and what they actually do are two different things. Being a GM in the NBA (or any sport) is like player poker. Of course it's bad business to overpay a player. We want Boston to believe that we'll match any offer for Hayward so that they up the ante in trade proposal. If they really want Hayward that badly, we'll squeeze them for everything we can in a trade. That is good business.

 

[Zulu]

Burke and Hayward for rondo and green Jazz get to switch picks if Boston's is higher and one of the Brooklyn picks!!

 

[b_line]

Burke and Hayward for rondo and green Jazz get to switch picks if Boston's is higher and one of the Brooklyn picks!!

Nah bro, would rather just keep Burke and Hayward. Just sit or trade Marvin and Jefferson, and our pick will be good enough to get Jabari

 

[HeavenHarris]

u bros really think the jazz would trade away hayward? i dont MEAN to inject racialism into this discussion, but the harsh truth is hayward offers certain qualities that prolly sell tickets to a certain demographic in the local area. wink wink.